JF-17 build-up progresses
The Pakistan Air Force is fully operational with the JF-17 Thunder.
Gary Parsons - 12-Apr-2011
April 12: A second squadron in the Pakistan Air Force is operational with the CAIC-PAC JF-17 Thunder fighter.
No 16 Squadron, previously equipped with the A-5 Fantan aircraft, was formally stood up yesterday with the Thunder at a ceremony at PAF Base Peshawar by the Chief of the Air Staff, Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman and was declared operational.
The PAF is thought to have 26 JF-17s operational from a requirement of up to 250 aircraft.
The July issue of AirForces Monthly will carry a 24-page special on the development of this joint Chinese/Pakistan fighter, on sale June 2.
jawad said on the 14-Apr-2011 at 07:41
PMM, Friend can you explain how UK is Contributing towards JF-17?
mike yates said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 00:52
It is no big secret that the UK taxpayer funds the government of Pakistan amongst others in an overseas aid budget of around £8 billion per year. Pakistans share this year is around £650 million, so some people here in the UK will assume that we are paying towards many things in Pakistan. We are not naive enough to believe this all goes to schooling, and the poor, and some must then go towards military projects, and others, at a time when the UK is having to make cuts in this area. This hardly seems right, and some of us taxpayers are coming to believe we have paid out many many times over for our old colonial ancestors actions (unlike some other countries) and its about time we drew a line under a time in history many generations ago.
jawad said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 10:26
I do understand your point of view and we all know that most of it doesn't go to the schooling, and the poor people of Pakistan but rather it makes its way towards the pocket of rich and powerful people(Like the President 10%). I asked the question "can you explain how UK is Contributing towards JF-17?" because i know that Pakistan is funding this project through a loan from China.
I can understand the anger among the UK citizens especially in these harsh economic times, but that comment was made with no facts to back them up.
Is some part of This going for Military purchases, I highly doubt it as Pakistani government has even not given the funds received under the coalition support funds which is essentially given to support the Pakistani forces operating in the FATA region, so i highly doubt it that funds given for the schooling will will made available to the Defense forces.
khan said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 11:03
uk is paying double to india in aid and to other dozen countries...what about that...its common for uk to target common wealth nations in education and poorty reduction it doesnt go to defence
mike yates said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 15:56
It is NOT so much anger my friend as consternation. The fact that UK is going through a rough patch NOT of its own design rankles a bit with the population when we still keep having to make these payments. Why SHOULD we. As for the loan from China, it has to be paid back from the Pakistan government to the Chinese and the fund from the UK would be useful in that respect. You don`t seriously expect THAT payment should be pidgeon-holed in a "just for good causes" box. It all contributes to the WHOLE amount set aside for Pakistans spending....
mike yates said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 16:26
We should be paying NOTHING to India,a country that has its own SPACE industry should not get this payment. The UK is paying a huge price for its Old Colonials of centuries ago. Like MOST of these countries they wanted their own independance but as soon as trouble starts, who do they want to sort it out US. It has to stop. The Victorians from the UK developed the world with industry and gave (by ability) most countries the wealth they now have,yet they are as far removed from us in the UK as anywhere else. We have had to move on, so should the rest and stand on their own two feet, instead of blackmailing us with our (distant) past.
Benny Franklin said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 17:25
@ Mike and to all Brits.
YES, we should not be receiving the aid package from the UK, we don't need it...But we purchased military equipments from the UK eg. HMS Hermes, HMS Hercules, Sea Harriers (23), Sea King (45), Islander (15), Hawk (115), EH101 Merlin (12) haven't your people benefited from this... these were not given free, correct me if i am wrong..
I am in the UK now and i have seen it for myself the recession and cuts, but are we responsible for it. It's ur own people (the bankers and government..). To be honest u DON'T belong to Europe or NATO or the US, you should have been with us the COMMONWEALTH, where ever the Americans went they dragged you guys along with 'em.
Your country would have been much much better with the Commonwealth..
I have lot of respect for your men and women in the services, yes, ur people taught us to fight in the air, land and sea during WWII.You left and never bothered to look back.....
By the way i make model aircraft, i think i have almost completed the RAF in 1/72 scale...
mike yates said on the 15-Apr-2011 at 22:19
Nothing to do with aircraft but I can`t let this go.I presume then you`re Indian, Hermes went almost for scrap value, the other aircraft were bought at knock down prices and kits (Hawk and Jag)and remember, the others were bought when India was having cash from us by the Billions. Why was this money not going to the poor. If you are building up massive arms while millions in your country are piss poor, priorities are not being recognised. By India itself...
As for the commonwealth, I would bet most Brits couldn`t name 10 countries belonging to it. We only hear about it in the Queens speach, where we see Her Majesty, the HEAD of the Commonwealth of Nations (by the way) addressing many people who hate the very fact that she has visited in the name of the UK, because they cannot forget being dragged out of the stone-age and into the 18th century, to earn some wealth.
For our pains we ARE in Europe but that wouldn`t be if we were given the promised referendum. Again we pay much more IN than we get OUT. But you have got it right. We do NOT belong because other countries wont forget occupations from centuries ago. As far as leaving without looking back is concerned, WHAT do you THINK these blackmail payments are for. I`ll tell you its a punishment for trying to make the world a better place. I am NOW watching the 10 o`clock news, Libyans are BEGGING the UK for MORE airstrikes. Three months ago they were burning OUR flag in the streets through hatred...."Left and never looked back"... we don`t get the chance, we are always dragged back for cash or manpower.
As for the models, if you`ve built a Typhoon and Tornado, you`ll have ALL the RAF and will have built more aircraft than Bae in the past few years..
P.S. when you say (YOU) who never bothered to look back, meaning US Brits, remember, its our government who do this in our name and I can tell you this, WE, as a populus, are becoming more and more fed up with their decisions and how they go about them..
PMM said on the 16-Apr-2011 at 01:04
Your appreciation of history is a little on the inaccurate side. The UK left and never bothered to look back? Really. We lost thousands of Brits in an effort to stop the Japanese getting to India. The loss of Shanghai, defense through Burma, loss of HMS Prince of Whales and HMS Repulse etc. Where do you think the Hurricanes came from to defend India from the air? A lot of the time we were fighting the 'Free Indian Army' who fought alongside the Japanese. Turn Coat is the phrase I believe you should recognise. We left India as the largest democracy in the world. That was 60 years ago. If it wasn't for the UK/US, you'd be speaking Japanese now. You still haven't managed to build decent roads, railways or even a water system that doesn't poison the people. All of this with billions in aid from the UK and you spend it on a dumb nuclear weapons/space program. Now you're trying to build your own carriers while the people are begging in the streets. I've been and it is shameful. India is all show and no substance. We are scrapping our carriers so we can keep schools and hospitals for all. Don't even think that you can compare India or Pakistan to the UK. You don't come even close to the mark. Not even on the same page.
As for dragging along behind the US since we left India. Again lacking in fact. Remember a little skirmish in a place called Vietnam. 52,00 US killed and not a Brit amongst them. That was the US's reward for 'backing the UK and France in Suez' We don't slavishly follow anyone, but we do reward friendship with friendship. Remember some thug nation that tried to enslave some Brits in the South Atlantic. We sailed 8000 miles and kicked them out. I can't remember seeing any US soldiers or Indians. (And; no I don't count the Nepalese as Indian)
You should receive nothing in UK aid - not a penny, nor should Pakistan. We should send it to the Japanese who deserve help in a time of need and would spend it on the people it was intended for. Lets face it if the UK had a natural disaster, we'd get bugger all from India or Pakistan by way of help.
As for Europe - time will tell, but NATO? Tell thousands of Kosovans that we don't belong to NATO. Pick any, they're easy to find, the're the ones who don't have Serbian bullets in their heads because the UK was there to protect them.
Being a great Nation isn't about buying military toys and developing nuclear weapons, it's about having spine and a moral compass.
If it wasn't for the Anglo Saxon Nations, the world would be a much worse place.
Mike mentioned Libya. Where is the great Indian Airforce's contribution to human rights and the defence of the common man?
azhar said on the 23-May-2011 at 17:40
I think even if UK is paying pakistan and other common wealth countries its fair and should pay much more.After all it went in these countries seeding future prolems which they face now.Very good example is Kashmir.Uk should pay £1 billion a year only to people of kashmir too.I dont think people of UK have or ever had any say in what their goverment does over-seas or who they pay...what a democracy!
mike yates said on the 23-May-2011 at 21:54
So all the tribes in all the areas in every country the commonwealth covered 200 years ago, wern`t knocking seven bells of s**t out of each other before the arrival of the Brits???
Do the Brits go for hand outs from the Italians for the Roman occupation of our island. Do we ask for anything from the French or the Danes or the Dutch. All invaded us in the past or tried, to our amusement (Spanish-ho ho).. No its all in the past now and we`ve settled our diferrencies in a civilised way.(Something that your Mullahs find impossible to do). But I will say this. If the Brits pulled out of A-stan now, the fighting amongst the diferrent factions would worsen straight away. Same in Pakistan, is it the Brits fault that fighting goes on there. Same goes for Libya. Personally I would like to see the Brits and the Yanks pull out of all these places and leave you to your sorry selves, to blow each other up, as would still happen, but then you`d have no one to make a scapegoat. As for anyone else out there, learn to stand on your own two feet, stop sqabbling over poxy bits of sand, treat your woman as human beings, and take responsibility for the shit you find yourselves in. As for democracy, I`ll take what we have in the UK anyday, you will never know the freedom I`ve earned and enjoyed for the last fifty odd years. You are just typical of the scum we have begging in our cities every day, hands outstretched waiting for something to grab without working for it..why should we pay!!!!
Steve said on the 15-Jun-2011 at 13:04
Before you carry on with your righteous fury about the foreign aid budget have a look at who we give the most money to and do some listening.
Look at the balance of trade we have with India. Look at the trade we do with China. Both bring BILLIONS into this countries economy and create jobs. Look at the military stuff you have just been told India has bought here....these kinds of exports support our high-tech manufacturing sector and provide R
mike yates said on the 15-Jun-2011 at 17:48
If you were to read the previous posts you will see that my comments are as "consternation" and NOT fury, and I don`t see anything I`ve said as being "Righteous" also I am not the only postee to voice concerns about the uk paying into the coffers of other countries. I dont mind cash going to deserving causes but if a country can sustain an aerospace industry yet still keep many of its people in poverty then it should do so WITHOUT our cash. As for balance of trade we both buy and sell about the same from each country, currently standing at £14 billion per year with us buying almost £1 billion more from them than they do from us. So WHO or WHAT am I supposed to be listening to, it don`t matter WHO says it, the UK is struggling at the moment, why should we pay, we can`t afford it, THAT doesn`t change....its a fact. Your argument, the second paragraph, fails on every point, where is this military STUFF that brings BILLIONS to the UK, I think you`ll find we are trying to build UP our balance of the trade cos too much is going the wrong way for us! Try focusing on what they buy from Russia, you`ll see billions going there.
Steve said on the 17-Jun-2011 at 10:14
The fact remains we dont give money to India or China for reasons of philanthropy. There is zero concern from the Whitehall manadarins for the plight of the disenfranchised and downtrodden on the streets of Mumbai or Guangzhou!.
Its a sweetener, advertising, a bung call it what you will. "Aren't we nice people helping out your poorest people.....how many BAE Hawks would you like again?"
You want to rail against something?. Have a look at the Social Security budget. 08/09 the Guardian reported there was in excess of £10bn in means tested benefits left SURPLUS unclaimed plus another £4bn in unclaimed tax credits. Thats just the SURPLUS in the budget. We get a grip there and a few hundred million to Pakistan will be shown for the drop in the ocean it is.
mike yates said on the 17-Jun-2011 at 21:35
For fear of repetition,READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS of
Jawad-who thinks aid comes labelled as School, Poor, or Military and is carefully placed in the appropriate box...Of Khan-who thinks we should pay because we pay to other countries and thats it!....or Azher who thinks because the Brits ruled Kashmir there for less than a century we should forever give them aid. Who has not even considered that Kashmir has been fought over by Afghans Indians or Chinese and had been occupied by each of these for 2 THOUSAND years before the Brits got there. These are the people I`m in answer to, no one else. As for sweetners for foreign trade the Brits get no-where near USA, Russia France, Italy etc. all who trade here and are first to the trough every time. You must also understand, I`m NOT "railing" against anything, just stating facts as I with many others have come to understand them.
Steve said on the 18-Jun-2011 at 09:52
You are making a big issue of a few hundred million quid?.
When you take out the amounts given to the Indians (especially) but also the Chinese, Singaporeans, Saudi's etc which, as I say, are nothing to do with philanthropy you are left with top line contributions like a couple of hundred mill to Ethiopia, a couple of hundred to Bangladesh, the same to Afghanistan.
When we have a Social Security budget thats so bloated that £14bn is left over unclaimed ANNUALLY do you really think that we cant afford to do some bloody good in the world to the tune of a couple of hundred mill here and there?. Honestly?.
Your premise is that we are on hard times and we have to look out for ourselves before buying fighters for Pakistani's. I'm showing you that the facts 'you and many others' believe in are meaningless and you are looking in the wrong place for cash that would improve things back at home.
mike yates said on the 18-Jun-2011 at 20:59
No Steve, I fully understand that many Billions can be found in other places and in fact I have explained them in many posts over the last year or so and so I won`t repeat them here. I am NOT making an issue out of anything except, the posts from people who state that we should pay money to them just because we are the Nasty colonial British. As for showing me the facts, I am fully aware of them, you are showing me nothing new. The SS budget really something to go int on this blog, but NO-ONE will change my mind, I don`t believe we should pay money to ANYONE else in the world. Harsh,yes but it IS my personal view. To coin a very old phrase,"most of these people wouldn`t piss on us if we were on fire" you`ve seen `em burning our flag... why should we pay anything to them! To show I`m not making an issue I won`t correspond further on this issue, hows `at.
Jawad said on the 4-Dec-2011 at 20:50
That would be great, i hope it will cover most of the questions regarding weapons integration and future plans of PAF about JF-17.
PMM said on the 4-Dec-2011 at 23:35
I hope they cover why UK tax payers are contributing toward these planes while scrapping our harriers and carriers.