HOT TOPIC !!!

Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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In the Posting, "Words fail me" mention was made, that barbaric though it may seem criminals are sometimes stoned to death for the crime they committed. So, I ask this que estion. Crime rates are up, in nearly all areas of crime, so the question I pose is this. Do you think that it would make any difference to the crime rate if hanging was brought back, along with, and many of us have had it, a good caning at school, or what deterrent do you think would bring the crime rate down?. Lincoln .7
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Profile picture for user Grey Area

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Any punishment can only be a deterrent if the potential malefactor believes the odds are that they'll be caught. It's also worth pointing out that countries that do have the death penalty still have to use it, which sort of knocks the deterrence point on the head really. It all depends on whether you want to see justice or vengeance, I suppose.
Profile picture for user Arthur Pewtey

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Crime rates are up are they? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12238962 The US example would suggest that the death penalty is not much of a deterrent.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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Any punishment is only a deterrent if the potential malefactor thinks there's a good chance they'll be caught. It's also worth pointing out that countries that do have the death penalty still have to use it, which sort of knocks the deterrence point on the head really. It all depends on whether you want to see justice or vengeance, I suppose.
Justice is what I would like to see, not the pathetic slap on the wrist. Any Police Officer will tell you, that every housewife, who has had their house burgled wants to sell up and move away.and their husbands are never, understandably happy either. In my experience very few burglaries are detected. And what about those kids who committed crime, and as a punishment got sent abroad for a holiday, some deterrent that must have been. Lincoln .7

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GA's last comment is the key. What is justice? Justice is perceived to be many things by many people and the question of whether the punishment meted out for a crime is apt or not, is highly contentious. I do not happen to believe that the "ultimate sanction" is a deterrent, although I am ambivalent about corporal punishment. The problem is that much crime is petty but highly anti-social and the punishments barely worth the police's trouble. As GA says unless the punishment is viewed by the criminal as something he or she fears it serves no purpose. As for crime statistics - there are as many versions of the statistics as there are crimes. What we singularly fail to do here is to study the causes of crime and seek to address prevention rather than cure. Look at our family and social structures and our drug culture to find some of the answers.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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Crime rates are up are they? http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12238962 The US example would suggest that the death penalty is not much of a deterrent.
Smoke and mirrors Arthure, we were told to manipulate the amount of people we had booked 40 yrs ago, to make it look good. In this new, look at what crime has happened in your area in Dec 2010, it shows there was one buglary in our street, when I know for a fact, as I know the occupants, there was 2, now if thats not manipulation, I dont know what is. As for the death penalties in the States, due to the many appeals the criminals on death row make, it takes years to get the appeal heard, then they can get their brief to appeal again, what with the progress that has been made with DNA.if, and I repeat IF it is prooved beyond a doubt, that the offender did in fact commiitt the crime, then punishment should be administered ASAP. Lincoln .7 Lincoln .7
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As for the death penalties in the States, due to the many appeals the criminals on death row make, it takes years to get the appeal heard, then they can get their brief to appeal again, what with the progress that has been made with DNA.if, and I repeat IF it is prooved beyond a doubt, that the offender did in fact commiitt the crime, then punishment should be administered ASAP.
And IF the death penalty really was a deterrent then it would never have to be used. In countries where it is on the statute books, the death penalty IS used and criminals ARE executed. Therefore, it is not a deterrent. It seems simple enough to me.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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And IF the death penalty really was a deterrent then it would never have to be used. In countries where it is on the statute books, the death penalty IS used and criminals ARE executed. Therefore, it is not a deterrent. It seems simple enough to me.
Hi GA, I would argue the first point, the criminal mind tells the criminal he will get away with it, and mostly they do, even though they know they can face the death penalty. I would say that if we did introduce the death penalty in the U.K. then serious crime would fall. In your 2nd point in countries where the penalty is in use and is used MUST be a deterrant, even the most stupid criminal would have to think what could happen should he kill somewon in a robbery, and knowing he faces the death penalty if caught. Lincoln .7
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In your 2nd point in countries where the penalty is in use and is used MUST be a deterrant, even the most stupid criminal would have to think what could happen should he kill somewon in a robbery, and knowing he faces the death penalty if caught.
And yet, criminals are tried and found guilty of capital crimes and are executed. That's not how a deterrent works, my friend.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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And yet, criminals are tried and found guilty of capital crimes and are executed. That's not how a deterrent works, my friend.
O.K. Oh wise obie canobie, can you suggest a deterrent that would work, if what I think is the ultimate is wrong. P.S. It's very unusual for you to get involved in forum topics, have I touched upon a raw nerve somewhere along the line?;) Lincoln. 7 :diablo:
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The US example would suggest that the death penalty is not much of a deterrent.
Just this week, a guy in prison for life attacked and killed a female correctional officer in the prison chapel. This state (the way it's run in the US, each state has its own laws) has a death penalty but it's very rarely used (about once every 10-15 years) so it didn't deter him, however, I'd imagine it would deter others. I'd hate to be a corrections officer surrounded by guys in for life (often with no chance of parole) with nothing left to lose and no death penalty. I'd imagine some would just as soon kill you before lunch.
Profile picture for user Moggy C

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The death penalty saves money at the cost of the occasional innocent lives. Worth it? Your call. Moggy
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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The death penalty saves money at the cost of the occasional innocent lives. Worth it? Your call. Moggy
Hi Moggy, I think we have long since passed the "occasional" innocent life, it's now an everyday occurance sadly. I agrree it would save the Country millions every year. I like what JB has just posted re the prison officer. Lincoln. 7
Profile picture for user Grey Area

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Just this week, a guy in prison for life attacked and killed a female correctional officer in the prison chapel. This state (the way it's run in the US, each state has its own laws) has a death penalty but it's very rarely used (about once every 10-15 years) so it didn't deter him, however, I'd imagine it would deter others. I'd hate to be a corrections officer surrounded by guys in for life (often with no chance of parole) with nothing left to lose and no death penalty. I'd imagine some would just as soon kill you before lunch.
Interesting anecdotes. But you're talking as though the death penalty were a deterrent to the kind of behaviour you describe. It clearly isn't, otherwise such things would never happen in countries where the death penalty still exists. It probably is a very effective form of vengeance, but that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
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The one big advantage of the death penalty is of course...they cannot re-offend ! And as moggy posted - its much cheaper than life imprisonment !!
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O.K. Oh wise obie canobie, can you suggest a deterrent that would work, if what I think is the ultimate is wrong. P.S. It's very unusual for you to get involved in forum topics, have I touched upon a raw nerve somewhere along the line?;)
The perception (correct or otherwise) that being caught and subsequently punished was inevitable would go some way towards it. If you really don't believe you'll ever be made to suffer the consequences, the nature of the punishment for your crime is irrelevant. I've been sitting watching Cardiff vs Swansea on the PC and then listening to Liverpool vs Chelsea on the radio so I've been sitting in front of the computer for most of the afternoon. It takes a lot more than someone who doesn't know the meaning of the word "deterrent" to touch a raw nerve with me. :p
Profile picture for user Grey Area

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The one big advantage of the death penalty is of course...they cannot re-offend ! And as moggy posted - its much cheaper than life imprisonment !!
The big disadvantage of the death penalty is that, if the wrong person has been convicted, another innocent life has been lost. You're surely not going to tell us that miscarriages of justice never happen, are you?

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The one big advantage of the death penalty is of course...they cannot re-offend ! And as moggy posted - its much cheaper than life imprisonment !!
And certainly if they never offended in the first place.:( One miscarriage of justice is one too many and I had some dealings many years ago with the families of two wrongly hanged individuals. Nothing further to add but it is not a deterrent and never has been.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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Interesting anecdotes. But you're talking as though the death penalty were a deterrent to the kind of behaviour you describe. It clearly isn't, otherwise such things would never happen in countries where the death penalty still exists. It probably is a very effective form of vengeance, but that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
GA. With respect, I would describe vengance as one person getting revenge on one who has done something untowards the one seeking the revenge.And is possibly a small niggling thing that eats away at the person seeking revenge. Murder, whether premeditated or not, has denied a person a life, and the murderer should therefor give their life up. Not going to get into religeon, but it does state, "An eye for an eye" etc Lincoln .7

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GA. With respect, I would describe vengance as one person getting revenge on one who has done something untowards the one seeking the revenge.And is possibly a small niggling thing that eats away at the person seeking revenge. Murder, whether premeditated or not, has denied a person a life, and the murderer should therefor give their life up. Not going to get into religeon, but it does state, "An eye for an eye" etc Lincoln .7
....as well as "turn the other cheek".....
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You're surely not going to tell us that miscarriages of justice never happen, are you?
Of course not...just pointing out one advantage,I would have thought with todays forensics etc...M.O.J's for capital offences would be less likely than (say) in the 60's.