Question regarding rear facing radars in Sukhois

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 202

Sorry I couldn't find anything on this with the search function, but I was wondering about the rear facing radars we hear about from time to time. I'm not sure how mythical these things are, but I would like some clarification just for my information.

I was asked if the Su-35 was going to feature a rearward facing radar. I assumed that these rearward facing radars were 'folk tales' from the days of the Su-37 and trumped up capabilities.

But then I remembered that they moved the drag chute for the Su-35.

So is there a radar in the Su-35's tail stinger?
If so, do we know a designation?
Are the serial production models being delivered with these radars?
And are there any similar radars in the tail stingers of the Su-34?

Thanks.

Original post

Member for

19 years 6 months

Posts: 3,609

In the Su-34, the front-mounted radar is supplemented by a rear-aspect V005 radar housed in the long tail "stinger".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Su-34#Cockpit_and_avionics

The modernized Su-35 was presented at the MAKS-2007 air show in August 2007. The new features of the aircraft include a reinforced airframe with a more extensive use of titanium alloys, thus increasing the airframes durability to some 30 years or 6,000 service hours,[19] a reduced radar signature from the front,[16] and an improved passive electronically scanned array radar. The aircraft featured many other upgrades to its avionics and electronic systems, including digital fly-by-wire and a rear-looking radar for firing Semi-Active Radar missiles

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-35

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 202

I'm usually okay with getting things from Wikipedia, but when it's unconfirmed things that have a track record of being more ideas than serial components, I'd like some other sources.

I think the designation I've heard for the tail radar in both the Su-34 and 35 is N012.

Any truth to this? And is it on the serial aircraft?

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

Nope. You cant thrust Wiki on this one.

Both the Su-35S and Su-34 do NOT have a rear facing radar.
The aft Spine/tail on Su-34 contain EW and jammer systems.

The old Su-37 on display had one, but it never made any deals so.. no rear radar.

The New Su-35S= N0035E or Irbis-E radar

Su-34= Leninets B005 Multimode Attack Radar phased array or The B004 multimode phased array attack radar.

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 202

That's what I needed to know. Thanks a lot.

And while we're on the subject, what are the differences in the Su-34's B005 and B004 radars?

Member for

14 years 4 months

Posts: 2,114

The old Su-37 on display had one, but it never made any deals so.. no rear radar.

Oh, did it ? Are there any photos of the instalation or at least the dielectric radome by any chance ? Thanks.:)

Member for

18 years 7 months

Posts: 1,344

Su-27K (1980 - 1985)
Radar
http://paralay.com/su33/344.jpg

Member for

19 years 6 months

Posts: 3,609

I'm usually okay with getting things from Wikipedia, but when it's unconfirmed things that have a track record of being more ideas than serial components, I'd like some other sources.

I think the designation I've heard for the tail radar in both the Su-34 and 35 is N012.

Any truth to this? And is it on the serial aircraft?

Good wiki's will have a whole list of open source references at the bottom. It should be fairly straightforward to assess the accuracy of a wiki on that basis. Just as one would to to assess and article in a professional journal. In that sense, it is folly to dismiss wiki outright.

Member for

19 years 6 months

Posts: 3,609

Nope. You cant thrust Wiki on this one.

Both the Su-35S and Su-34 do NOT have a rear facing radar.
The aft Spine/tail on Su-34 contain EW and jammer systems.
The old Su-37 on display had one, but it never made any deals so.. no rear radar.

The New Su-35S= N0035E or Irbis-E radar

Su-34= Leninets B005 Multimode Attack Radar phased array or The B004 multimode phased array attack radar.

That would seem (more) logical.

On the topic of trusting wiki and verifiable information: what (open) source is above based on? (It is rather strange / inconsistent to dismiss wiki because of 'unconfirmed things' and then accept a post from 'anybody on a forum' as true/confirmed.)

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 202

Good wiki's will have a whole list of open source references at the bottom. It should be fairly straightforward to assess the accuracy of a wiki on that basis. Just as one would to to assess and article in a professional journal. In that sense, it is folly to dismiss wiki outright.

Your statement pulled from the Wiki page didn't have a source. I checked.

Like I said, usually Wiki is a very good source for information. But only when sourced. The statement on rear facing radars was not sourced and was labeled as [citation needed].

EDIT:
And haavarla has a good track record from what I've seen.

Member for

15 years 3 months

Posts: 6,441

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Sukhoi_Su-34_on_the_MAKS-2009.jpg

There seems to be some kind of sensor array under the tail seen here.
The radar and EW system onboard the Su-34 is one of VVS most guarded secrets..
We know more about the Su-35S vs the Su-34..
So go figure.:)

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 202

I didn't notice that at first. I was paying more attention to the bort number.

You've got a good eye.
This means that not only 711 had a rear facing radar (or at least, was prepared to have one installed), but 712 was also.

Member for

14 years 5 months

Posts: 3,538

The Su 34 looks a poorly built product (i mean't the finishing and looks not the capability), the Su 35s/FGFA/MIG 29K etc look much better.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

The Su 34 looks a poorly built product (i mean't the finishing and looks not the capability), the Su 35s/FGFA/MIG 29K etc look much better.

That photo is not one of the recently built serials.

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 3,652

That photo is not one of the recently built serials.

It is Bort 01 - from MAKS 2009....

http://www.flankers-site.co.uk/moscow_2009_files/day02_030.jpg

A production example from the 4th TsBP i PLS - Aircrew Training Centre at Lipetsk.

Ken

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

Right, but from what I have seen the newer airframes (for example the ones delivered in December 2010) look a lot tidier.