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By: 24th June 2011 at 23:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-One is the original article and the other is a gross violation and outright theft of intellectual property rights.
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-New EW suit on the Su-35, as well as laser/launch warning detection.
New OLS.
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I think the first batch of J-11Bs used Al-31s (two, three years ago?). All the ones since then have been using WS-10.
And one of the biggest changes for J-11B is being able to use indigenous weapons. That was basically why it was conceived in the first place.
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Are there any plans to add radar blockers in Su-35's intakes?
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Are there any plans to add radar blockers in Su-35's intakes?
No. But Sukhoi and associated groups did a lot of work in regards to Su-27 RCS reduction. Apparently some of that was integrated onto the Su-35, I am not sure what levels though.
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-From huitong's page, a full list of the J-11B's changes:
New mechanically steered radar.
Rear UV band MAWS
New cockpit
More use of composite materials
Use of RAM in specific areas (?)
Powered by WS-10
And being able to use indigenous weapons, of course.
--
Not sure if the IRST is the same as on the flankers the PLAAF got in the early 90s (his site says it's indigenous as well but not sure if it's a direct copy or if it's different), and some people are talking about an AESA replacement later on but best to leave that out for the moment.
By: 24th June 2011 at 23:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-They are not the same plattform to start. J-11B is the older Su-27 but assembled with Chinese produced (copied) components, inherently stable airframe. Difference from Su-27: basically the same, but with different, though similar, avionics arrangement, and with different manufacture quality (worser).
Su-35 is different airframe, unstable (5-10%?) and with a very different system arrangement (avionics, etc). Manufacture is different as well.
Compare J-11B with their common plattform, Su-27, older. With Su-35 is nosense, as it is different.
By: 25th June 2011 at 01:40 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The biggest change of the J-11B is one that almost everyone seems to overlook. There was a 700kg weight reduction from the Su-27SK, which was already the lightest flanker variant. One of the rare instances in aviation when an development fork managed to shed mass.
The J-11B has a empty weight of 15680kg, thats nearly 3000kg less than the it's portly cousins derived from the Su-30. That is going to provide a major improvement across the entire flight envelope.
There was also a modest RCS improvement as well.
There is an oft repeated misunderstanding about the WS-10A engines, the "quality" issues that cropped up were not what most people think they are, and certainly not by the China Weak!11!1! crowd. Engine components have to be built to exceedingly tight tolerances and any weaknesses in production quality control shows up in a high rejection rate. The problem with the initial production of the WS-10A was that a higher number of components ended up being rejected than anticipated. This causes two issues, one a much higher cost as those parts that are rejected are still as expensive as ****, and two a lower production rate as you simply dont have enough parts needed to assemble the engines and provide service spares. The economics behind it are very similar to microchips. Each silicon wafer can produce a set amount of chips. Imperfections in the manufacturing process reduce the amount viable chips that each wafer can yield, the effect is more pronounced the larger the overall chip needs to be. This costs can be so great, that they can effectively torpedo a program as happened to the 32nm migration for Nvidia and ATI.
By: 25th June 2011 at 02:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The biggest change of the J-11B is one that almost everyone seems to overlook. There was a 700kg weight reduction from the Su-27SK, which was already the lightest flanker variant. One of the rare instances in aviation when an development fork managed to shed mass.
.
1.) the Su-35 is ligher than the SK.
2.) Given the replacement of legacy heavy Soviet electronics, that's honestly not that impressive.
By: 25th June 2011 at 02:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-1.) the Su-35 is ligher than the SK.2.) Given the replacement of legacy heavy Soviet electronics, that's honestly not that impressive.
He didn't even write a single word about Su-35 in his post. Don't get so defensive. :)
By the way, 3 tons difference is quite a lot in my opinion. It cannot be explained only by avionics.
By: 25th June 2011 at 02:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-1.) the Su-35 is ligher than the SK.2.) Given the replacement of legacy heavy Soviet electronics, that's honestly not that impressive.
WRT 2) huitong's site seems to imply 700kg was lost due to use of composites alone?
PKoschei, where'd you get the number for J-11B's empty weight from?
He didn't even write a single word about Su-35 in his post. Don't get so defensive. :)By the way, 3 tons difference is quite a lot in my opinion. It cannot be explained only by avionics.
To be fair he wasn't being defensive, Pkoschei said it was rare for J-11B to be lighter than an aircraft it was developed from (Su-27), so the Su-35 being lighter than SK is quite relevant.
By: 25th June 2011 at 02:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-He didn't even write a single word about Su-35 in his post. Don't get so defensive. :)By the way, 3 tons difference is quite a lot in my opinion. It cannot be explained only by avionics.
Nobody is defensive. I was stating facts.
EDIT: Blitzo already caught it.
By: 25th June 2011 at 02:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The J-11B airframe is a modified and lightened J-11A which was a license produced Su-27SK. Which according to wikipedia has an empty weight of 16380.
By: 25th June 2011 at 03:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-^ Yes, but where did you get J-11B's empty weight of 15680 from?
By: 25th June 2011 at 05:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-One is the original article and the other is a gross violation and outright theft of intellectual property rights.
This! makes all other differences irrelevant.
By: 25th June 2011 at 08:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Hmm.. let's se Su-35 will have the Ibris-E PESA, right? But how mouch do we know about the corresponding radar in the J-11Bs?
By: 25th June 2011 at 09:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-SK weighs some 16 tons. su35, according to sukhoi.org weighs some 18 tons. That is only natural considering the new version has twice the lifespan and reinforced airframe for greater payloads (due to multirole missions)
By: 25th June 2011 at 10:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-OK gents, her comes the Idiot Question of The Day: Why didnt the Chinese try to clone their Su-30MKKs instead of the more basic Su-27/J-11A??
Posts: 3,442
By: J-20 Hotdog - 24th June 2011 at 23:28
inspired by Deino's post..
major change of Su-35S from Su-27 is:
new PESA radar
new engine 117S with thrust vectoring
removal of air brake
more use of titanium in structure, longer life
new cockpit
major change of J-11B from Su-27 is:
new mechanical steered array radar
new cockpit with 5 mfds
new MAWS
supposedly WS-10 engines, but Huitong site says quality sucked so still using the same Russian ones.
anything else? how about J-15?