Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

Read the forum code of contact

Profile picture for user Bruce

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 8,458

Anyone still think its a model?!

Amazing, amazing pictures. Answers most of the questions - except for the serial!!

Plenty of sand in the cockpit!

Bruce

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 2,588

Definitely see "HS" (260 Sqn) code on that

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 2,588

PS do I see HS-B on Image Orbaz151?

Profile picture for user Bruce

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 8,458

Someone has nicked the ID plate out of the cockpit!

Just four holes remain.

Bruce

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 9,705

Bingo!

https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink


Amazing photographs! Thanks for the link.

I think those ‘flare cartridges’ are the individual cells of the dry battery?

So, the pilot attempted a wheels-down landing but the undercarriage did not survive the terrain and the aircraft finished-up on its belly. At least these photographs explain the (apparent) lack of cowling damage when the propeller and reduction gear were ripped from the airframe.

I do hope the opportunity to preserve this ‘time capsule’ isn’t lost after so long.

Member for

15 years 2 months

Posts: 409

My God, those pictures, they're incredible! Gives hope that there could be more examples of WW2 aircraft in this condition elsewhere.

Profile picture for user Dobbins

Member for

9 years 4 months

Posts: 442

Yeah, that's make more sense re. the battery cells. I was getting ahead of myself! What's the bloke holding in the second to last photo?

Profile picture for user Peter

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 10,101

A parachute..

Profile picture for user inkworm

Member for

11 years 5 months

Posts: 1,259

Amazing set of photos, so with all that detail how long before a modeller builds a diorama?

And agree that it looks like a 'B' in photo 151

Member for

11 years

Posts: 27

Look at the shrapnel exit holes in picture 6 row 3.

I wonder if that could have been caused by some explosive device in the rear fuselage to destroy the radio or IFF transmitter?

Maybe that's what forced open and distorted the fuselage hatch too?

Profile picture for user Peter

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 10,101

PS do I see HS-B on Image Orbaz151?

I cant make out the B in the code??

Member for

9 years 8 months

Posts: 797

Fingers Crossed.

Great photos, but I hope this a/c doesn't share the fate of Lady Be Good and end up as a tattered pile of scrap. As for a 'time capsule', well, you'd have to leave it in situ and ...... Naaaaa..... Not another pile of scrap cluttering up a museum - puleeeease....:rolleyes: Lets hops she gets back into the air, or at the very least, into proper static condition.

Member for

11 years 9 months

Posts: 937

This photo has me very CURIOUS - https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink#5734889981343253970 - its a US built Kittyhawk from 1941/42 maybe so what is a aircraft part from Australia doing this aircraft? Does this mean this is a RAAF aircraft now?

Whats the reason a Australian company would supply Curtis with such a part doesnt seem right when the RAAF was importing P-40 and i am highly skeptical that Australia would export such items to US? Now if this was inserted into the aircraft in Australia before deployment to Africa???

Profile picture for user Bruce

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 8,458

Its the old, old argument.

If you restore it to fly, you'll throw away 50% of it

If you restore it to full static, you'll throw away 30% of it.

Its about interpretation. Properly presented, and laid out much as it is now, it would be a fantastic exhibit, and far more valuable as an artifact than it would be if restored.

No, recover it, but leave it alone please.

Bruce

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 9,705

No, recover it, but leave it alone please.

I agree!

That ‘grey crumble’ under the engine in photograph 62 (of the 66); is it the remains of some parts of the alloy engine castings? There are some other (rusty) steel engine components on the sand, without any sign of alloy casings; would that possibly indicate a small engine fire post-landing? And the fact that most of the aircraft is unburnt would that possibly indicate the fuel was exhausted?

Pure speculation I know, but I’m afraid, this is a close as I’m ever going to get to the crash-site! :o

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 9,705

Now if this was inserted into the aircraft in Australia before deployment to Africa???

The battery would probably be a replaceable short-life component; it wouldn’t have to come from the aircraft supplier?
Profile picture for user Dobbins

Member for

9 years 4 months

Posts: 442

Agreed, this should not go back into the air. If anything if should be left as it is (note to video people, leave it be) unlike Duxford's 109...

Profile picture for user shepsair

Member for

11 years 8 months

Posts: 282

P40E

Amazing

Yep, I see HS-B

Still no visible serial but we know where to look.

A certain 'Stocky' Edwards of 260Sqn flew HS-B often and he is still with us in Canada.

Unfortunately everything being prised open to see if anything valuable :-(

Not good but amazing anyway.

Mark

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 2,588

Australian part = battery a standard commodity component from stores manufactured all over the place in any county

They could get replacement anywhere e.g. I have had tyres on my car from many countries but all the same size!

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

Member for

21 years 5 months

Posts: 2,588

Maybe.. A BIG BIG MAYBE

From KITTYHAWK PILOT

"The following day, 23 October 1942, the last day before the major Allied offensive, enemy fighters put forth a particularly fine effort. 260 pilots were involved in heavy dogfights and Sgt Cartwright recorded: "Pilots racing to go after recent victories. 1st show: 109's shoot up Mink in N. Crash-lands. 2nd show: 109's get going again and shoot down B and C — one pilot safe. 3rd show: they shoot down Sheppard (comes back O.K.) and damaged X and O badly. We only get one damaged and Shep got a Macchi." Pilot Officer Mink, the American, was shot down in the first show by one of the German aces of Jagdgeschwader 27. Warrant Officer E. Tomlinson, one of the new Canadians with 260, was killed and Sergeant Colley was shot down in the second show. In the third show, Sergeant Sheppard was shot down and Kittys flown by P/O Thornhill and F/O Aitchison were badly shot up. It had been a good day for the Macchi pilots. No German claims were recorded for Tomlinson, Colley, Sheppard, Thornhill or Aitchison.
"The big push at Alamein started tonight when tanks advanced," Sgt Cartwright wrote in his diary on 23 October 1942. The final battle for El Alamein had opened."

Colley is F/Sgt (Pilot) John C. COLLEY - 1378464 - 260 Sqn (Nefatia, Libya), who died of wounds or injuries received in action 10-3-1943

Tomlinson is Canadian Warrant Officer Eric Tomlinson on El Alamein memorial

Colley forcelanded his aircraft on this date but got back ok...