Almost new Gripens for sale!! <3

Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

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6 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

Since South Africa wants to dump them..

any candidates on the takers?

Thailand?
Sexy Eastern European country?
Pakistan?
Brasil?
Scotland in 2014?

Original post
Profile picture for user PLA-MKII

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15 years

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Hey Y-20, why does South Africa want to dump the uber plane that you love so much and you've always figured as far superior to the JF-17? ;-)

What confidence does that give to clients of the Gripen NG? Maybe you should give up on your hate campaign of the JF-17 and come to terms with something people sometimes refer to as reality... ;-)

Profile picture for user MadRat

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13 years 7 months

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The SA people are fed up with their corrupt leadership and ever since they aligned domestically with China on trade their economy has fizzled. Sounds familiar.

Profile picture for user frankvw

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20 years 3 months

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Hey Y-20, why does South Africa want to dump the uber plane that you love so much and you've always figured as far superior to the JF-17? ;-)

What confidence does that give to clients of the Gripen NG? Maybe you should give up on your hate campaign of the JF-17 and come to terms with something people sometimes refer to as reality... ;-)

Costs maybe ?

Note: this better doesn't turn to another flag waving thread, or a thread about Chinese made planes.

Profile picture for user Fedaykin

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14 years 4 months

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Can this not turn into yet another argument about the JF-17, not as if we haven't had enough of those already.

For a country sitting on a huge amount of natural resources that should be raising plenty of taxation to more then easily fund the ongoing maintenance of their airforce this is a crazy situation. Gripen is meant to be one of the most affordable to operate Western fighter jets on the market, retirement through lack of funding is hardly a good reflection on the governance of the country.

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9 years 4 months

Posts: 300

Hmmm...

Malaysia is looking to lease some AFAIK (among other things) for their MRCA requirements. Rather than leasing gripens, maybe SAAF can offer theirs for sale to Malaysia?

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8 years 4 months

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The SA people are fed up with their corrupt leadership [...] .

Corruption is the great Experteen of the early 21st century.

Profile picture for user gregair

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13 years 3 months

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Hey Y-20, why does South Africa want to dump the uber plane that you love so much and you've always figured as far superior to the JF-17? ;-)

What confidence does that give to clients of the Gripen NG? Maybe you should give up on your hate campaign of the JF-17 and come to terms with something people sometimes refer to as reality... ;-)

It has nothing to do with in particular Gripen being expensive to run, Most of the SAAF Helicopter fleet and the Hawks are also grounded due to lack of funding in general.
There are no new crews being trained and according to reports the A109 fleet are only doing engine starts but no actual flying!
The Astra (Pc7 Mk2) trainer fleet only has a hand full of technicians to maintain them and most of them are trainees.

The news reports are painting a dismal picture of unrealistic funding of the SAAF and the obvious result.

Quote "Keen military watcher and author Darren Olivier said the latest developments are "what happens when an air force is allocated a minuscule peace time flying budget drastically cut from last year and then force it to carry out two rapid, large scale and expensive deployments to countries thousands of kilometres away.

"Once the operational budget has been totally emptied, emergency ad hoc funds are not allocated from the National Treasury's contingency fund as expected. The Minister of Defence and Military Veterans didn't even know what reporters were talking about when they asked her about ad hoc funding," he wrote on a local aviation chatroom."

Read more here:
http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1227/saaf-�crisis�-caused-by-underfunding

http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1223/sell-hawks-agustas-says-expert

http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2013/07/24/south-african-airforce-in-crisis-da

Profile picture for user obligatory

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11 years 5 months

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Military sector is a corruption-hole in every country, it just get magnified ten times over in 3rd world,
with the ultimate realization being military dictatorship.
I would be looking into a package where an outside company, in this case SAAB,
is being paid a sum that covers every expense beside salary.

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11 years 1 month

Posts: 840

Perhaps, but the prime issue is not that South Africa is spending an equivalent amount of money that other Gripen users spend on operational costs for Gripen and not getting anything out of it. The problem is that they aren't allocating enough budget for operational costs both in the first place, and external operation costs end up being covered by the normal budget, removing funds from normal training and maintenance. So having a private contract wouldn't help them with that problem, they would just be in default of contract to SAAB. If a contract with SAAB could be given it's own independent budget, then so can the SAAF's normal baseline training and maintenance .

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 2,120

Whole of SAAF has been gutted - apparently whole A109 fleet has been allocated a grand total of 71 hours for flying this year and budget for spares has been scrapped. BK117 future is also uncertain. Rooivalk availability is about 2 airframes a day (out of 11 in service).

SAAF is well on it's way to being just another typical African airforce - no level of operational capability and largely grounded, with occassional government splurge on gear whose main purpose is to fly at presidential parades for a couple of years before the hours expire.

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 506

Makes you wandered if South Africa still entitled to be clasified as rising economic power as Brazil, Rusia, China, and India in BRICS. For me from beginning, inclusion of South Africa in BRICS already questionable. South Africa already bevome just another typical miss management African country. Rich in resources, clouded with extreme corrupts government and increasingly incompetent buerocracy.

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20 years 3 months

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Maybe ATAC would buy some and use them in their DACT contracts to replace their Hunters and Kfirs.

Profile picture for user Rii

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9 years 5 months

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Makes you wandered if South Africa still entitled to be clasified as rising economic power as Brazil, Rusia, China, and India in BRICS. For me from beginning, inclusion of South Africa in BRICS already questionable. South Africa already bevome just another typical miss management African country. Rich in resources, clouded with extreme corrupts government and increasingly incompetent buerocracy.

The BRIC concept originated from Goldman Sachs and South Africa was not and is not part of it. GS considers SA part of the "Next 11" group of emerging nations along with Indonesia, Mexico, Turkey, Vietnam, Iran, South Korea, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Egypt and Pakistan.

The BRICS diplomatic entity operates in its own universe of diplomatic relations.

Profile picture for user BlackArcher

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9 years 3 months

Posts: 3,337

Hey Y-20, why does South Africa want to dump the uber plane that you love so much and you've always figured as far superior to the JF-17? ;-)

What confidence does that give to clients of the Gripen NG? Maybe you should give up on your hate campaign of the JF-17 and come to terms with something people sometimes refer to as reality... ;-)

Its all to do with their shrinking budgets. I don't think anyone except you will argue that the JF-17 is superior in any way to the Gripen.

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 506

The BRIC concept originated from Goldman Sachs and South Africa was not and is not part of it. GS considers SA part of the "Next 11" group of emerging nations along with Indonesia, Mexico, Turkey, Vietnam, Iran, South Korea, Bangladesh, Nigeria, Egypt and Pakistan.

The BRICS diplomatic entity operates in its own universe of diplomatic relations.

Ha, ha, I forgot that even GS did not want to include SA with BRIC, and inclusions of SA with BRICS community more on Political move. Anyway the inclusion of SA in BRICS economically is a joke, considered how far the gap SA has with the rest of BRIC. Anyway GS loved on their statistical grouping that they have made another next grouping the MIKT (Mexico, Indonesia, Korea (ROC), and Turkey), as follow on group to BRIC.

Back to the topic. If really SAF going to let go those Grippen, can they still resurect the Atlas Cheetah ? From what I gathe4, they are still on reserve.

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 2,120

Back to the topic. If really SAF going to let go those Grippen, can they still resurect the Atlas Cheetah ? From what I gathe4, they are still on reserve.

Why resurrect Cheetah? They can't afford to operate Gripens so it's not like they'll be able to afford Cheetahs (especially with a thirsty turbojet). They can't even afford to fly A109 light helicopters and part of the training syllabus has been switched to Cessnas because they can't afford to operate PC-7s in that role.

12 of the Cheetahs have been sold to Ecuador.

Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

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6 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

It has nothing to do with in particular Gripen being expensive to run, Most of the SAAF Helicopter fleet and the Hawks are also grounded due to lack of funding in general.
There are no new crews being trained and according to reports the A109 fleet are only doing engine starts but no actual flying!
The Astra (Pc7 Mk2) trainer fleet only has a hand full of technicians to maintain them and most of them are trainees.

The news reports are painting a dismal picture of unrealistic funding of the SAAF and the obvious result.

Quote "Keen military watcher and author Darren Olivier said the latest developments are "what happens when an air force is allocated a minuscule peace time flying budget drastically cut from last year and then force it to carry out two rapid, large scale and expensive deployments to countries thousands of kilometres away.

"Once the operational budget has been totally emptied, emergency ad hoc funds are not allocated from the National Treasury's contingency fund as expected. The Minister of Defence and Military Veterans didn't even know what reporters were talking about when they asked her about ad hoc funding," he wrote on a local aviation chatroom."

Read more here:
http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1227/saaf-�crisis�-caused-by-underfunding

http://www.saairforce.co.za/news-and-events/1223/sell-hawks-agustas-says-expert

http://www.timeslive.co.za/politics/2013/07/24/south-african-airforce-in-crisis-da

you are wasting your time. logic does not apply in PLA-MKII land

Profile picture for user Y-20 Bacon

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6 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

Hey Y-20, why does South Africa want to dump

broke, duh. its been on the news for a while. they can barely run anything. not even your jf17s..if they actually wanted it..


the uber plane that you love so much and you've always figured as far superior to the JF-17? ;-)

who says I love it so much? but I think the sheer majority of this forum are fond of the little Gripen. the exceptions of course are you, JSR, and Eagle1


What confidence does that give to clients of the Gripen NG? Maybe you should give up on your hate campaign of the JF-17 and come to terms with something people sometimes refer to as reality... ;-)

some reality for ya
operators - Gripen 6, jf17 1 (and not even in its parent country)
2 seat variant - Gripen does, jf17 does only in model form
aesa radar - testing in Gripen demo, non existent in any jf17 variant except the imaginary ones
operations - Gripen flew hundreds of miles and thousands of hours in Libya, jf17 can't do anything with insurgents sleeping right next door.

now can you take your jf17 out of this thread and go some where else.. perhaps here?
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?120426-Eurofighter-Typhoon-News-and-Updates&

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 2,120

operations - Gripen flew hundreds of miles and thousands of hours in Libya, jf17 can't do anything with insurgents sleeping right next door.

Thousands of hours? Well 2,000 hours:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/paris-swedish-air-force-chief-hails-gripens-role-in-libya-358700/

http://www.defencetalk.com/mission-completed-swedish-gripen-back-from-libya-37964/

Oh and Swedes only operated in recce and not ground attack.

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9 years 6 months

Posts: 506

Why resurrect Cheetah? They can't afford to operate Gripens so it's not like they'll be able to afford Cheetahs (especially with a thirsty turbojet). They can't even afford to fly A109 light helicopters and part of the training syllabus has been switched to Cessnas because they can't afford to operate PC-7s in that role.

12 of the Cheetahs have been sold to Ecuador.

Well perhaps with the money they got on selling those Gripen, they can used it to resurrect at least a sq of Cheetah. I know is a long shoot, and I don't know the conditions of Atlas as Aircraft facility presently, however with Cheetah badically being remanufactured in Atlas to begin with, perhaps overall operating Cheetah again still made SAF at least able to maintain 1 sq of fast jets operational.

What I'm getting at, the money from Gripen sale can be used to restructured SAF budget and by then SAF can still be operational as respectable AF (for sub sahara Africa at least).