Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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Tony -I think its very unlikely that there would be any procedure to start breaking instrument faces to make instruments work in an emergency.
The chances are that breaking one could cause another instrument to fail.

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Also online at Kew are what seem to be divorce files for his parents in 1928.

His father is named in two divorce files in 1928 one from his wife in whcih she names other woman and the other from the second woman where he is named as the 'other man'.

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PS his Father was a Dentist who died on 8th June 1956

Whilst all here is speculation, I'd have thought it likely that the glass may have broken in the landing. He could quite easily have hit it with his hand, arm or knee, however tight he had pulled the straps - maybe even the stick top could have smashed that far forward.

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It's a bit unnecessary to be snooping into peoples' family affairs when we don't have a positive identification for the pilot. I am sure that whoever it was will have descendants out there somewhere, time will tell.

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I fear for the family members being contacted by someone alerting them to this being Coppings aircraft without definate proof.. I hope noone jumps the gun on this and causes any undue emotional upset until it is proven without a doubt..

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I fear for the family members being contacted by someone alerting them to this being Coppings aircraft without definate proof.. I hope noone jumps the gun on this and causes any undue emotional upset until it is proven without a doubt..

aye, or alerts the wrong people!

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It's a bit unnecessary to be snooping into peoples' family affairs when we don't have a positive identification for the pilot. I am sure that whoever it was will have descendants out there somewhere, time will tell.

I agree with that.

DD

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Steve

As mentioned, I think the identity needs to be confirmed before everyone goes to try and find Copping's family and declare his aircraft has been found.

When the serial is confirmed then Innsworth/AHB want to be notified as it involves a missing pilot.

I would not like to be a family member who gets told his planes been found and then find out it is not correct.

IF it is Copping, you therefore might be in a good position to help but lets wait until the identity is confirmed. Should only be a couple more days.

Andy, also found the divorce in 1928 with another women involved. Who would be classed as the next of kin - mother or father. Mother died in 1967 in Rockford. Additionally, if on a repair, transfer flight would he have had his kit with him Sounds as though they were also in retreat. Lot of North African log books were lost especially when the pilot was killed/missing.

regards

Mark

Exactly . I only ever mentioned it MIGHT be ET574 . but there again could possibly be one of many others
The fact that the HS 260 Squadron markings are faintly visible may be a complete red herring as the fuselage has received thorough abrasive treatment over the years and the Airframe may have been on the strength of another unit at the time of its loss Any overpainting would have been abraded first

Cheers
Terry

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Interesting that one of the photos shows the (steel) inlet vane of the supercharger and it's associated shaft lying loose on the ground. You can see melted aluminum on a few of the vanes.

There must have been some amount of fuel and fire present for the magnesium supercharger case to go away enough to let a component that far inside fall away. The melted looking rubble under the cowling seems to support that.

That said, if there was subtantial fuel left in the aircraft, you would think the fire would have progressed further and consumed more.

That might suggest that the pilot landed very low, but not completely out of fuel. If the engine were completely starved, he would (normally) cut the switches and switch off the tank selector. Of course, the switch/throttle positions in the photos could have been monkeyed with several times by the time the photos were taken. Still, that might have helped minimize the fire.

The broken reduction case might suggest that the engine was still running and under some power when the prop struck - many P-40 belly landings didn't separate that way.

If the terrain was as bad then as it is now, he'd choose to belly in (unless the U/C was locked down - as postulated). Flipping would be the main concern, certainly not saving the a/c.

If a wheel landing was unavoidable because of this, you'd expect the pilot to land under fair power, full flaps and far behind the power curve to try to get the touchdown speed as low as possible.

The evidence seems to support this in some ways - Just speculation, of course.

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Tony -I think its very unlikely that there would be any procedure to start breaking instrument faces to make instruments work in an emergency.
The chances are that breaking one could cause another instrument to fail.

David, it is on some Cessnas in an emergency to break the glass as there are no static drains.

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personaly if i had a missing relative from any time period in life even the slightest hope of them being found would re`stoke my fire to search for them. if it isnt the chap mentioned then at least it highlights the situation for the relatives and good will probably come of it.

i found the resting place of a crewman a few years ago and then contacted the relations, they knew nothing of how he and the rest of his crew died. it was only during the research of this crewman that we accidently discovered the whereabouts of his brother who had also died on a seperate occasion whilst flying with Bomber Command. incidently and just by chance they both had memorials made to them but hundreds of miles apart.

It does not matter who is lost or who is found, as long as they are not forgotten.

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Not sure if this link worls but in picture 29, is that a parachute D ring aft of the trailing edge of the wing in the sand??

Rigged it up as a sun screen/tent, maybe....

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Rigged it up as a sun screen/tent, maybe....

Exactly. I think the pilot's chute served him well into the passing days after the crash. As shelter from the harsh sunlight and as bedding and blanket throughout the cold nights. It wouldn't surprise me in this theatre that squadrons would have carried out some survival training for circumstances like this.

In this enviroment I believe the popular consensus is that life expectancey would be exceptional beyond 72 hrs. Probalby closer to 48 hrs I would guess. There are several true life stories of the first 24 hrs with out water being almost fatal. It would be better for him to move at night and stay layed up during the day out of the sun.

I really wish more information was made public so that personnel could formulate a likely search plan as to the direction the pilot may have taken off in. But i understand the reasoning. It is in all likelyhood that his remains could be well within miles of the crash site. The condition of the crash site after 70 years suggests that shifting sands are not great and that the pilot's remain might still be exposed and visible.

To any extent i think it's obivious to everyone that the pilot realized at some point what kind of trouble he was in. I hope he is recovered and layed to rest. He has spent enough time in the desert alone.

Shay
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Semper Fortis

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Any theories as to who the white face guys are? No attempt, it appears is being made to conceal the ID of the accompanying locals. In one of the last pics it looks as if a logo or some such indentifyer on the gentleman's shirt is being "Whited out".

Forgive my ignorance, what is the UK's equivlant to JPAC? Could this be them?

Shay
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Semper Fortis

The MOD does not have a JPAC. Nearest equivalent is the JCCC, but they do not have field-operatives in the same way. Given what we know, one would assume these are the Polish oil exploration guys who first revealed the P40 to the world. Whilst they could be operatives working for the British Embassy, I'd suggest their identity is not particularly relevant, overall, to the story of the P40.

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Tony -I think its very unlikely that there would be any procedure to start breaking instrument faces to make instruments work in an emergency.
The chances are that breaking one could cause another instrument to fail.

Standard procedure

If for some reason the static source becomes blocked, breaking the glass on the VSI (Rate of climb and descent) gauge allows the other pressure instruments to function. Doesn't do much for the VSI though

Moggy