To be able to purchase on the shop necessary cookies needs to be enabled, please see our
Cookie Policy
for more detail.
Cookies are required as well to watch videos.
If you prefer not to allow cookies please call
+44 (0) 1780 480404
to place your order over the phone.
By: Anonymous - 30th April 2012 at 19:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Only the housing, by the looks of it.
Posts: 258
By: pat1968 - 30th April 2012 at 19:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The initial five crew members of the lady be good were found after an extensive military operation involving a c130 and two cobra helicopters. One was discovered by BP oil company team by accident. I think this is likely to be the level of activity required to find the pilot. The lady be good crew were found 24 miles km from the aircraft. If you work on that figure that will mean e a search area(assuming he could have gone in any direction) of 1810 sq miles
Posts: 24
By: Shay - 30th April 2012 at 20:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or is it? ;) Zooming in from the rear it looks, as Tangmere stated, as though just the housing is still present but the mirror itself is missing.
https://picasaweb.google.com/114682566226043469349/Zdj_samolot?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCKjxkt6rkNTFKg&feat=directlink#5734882631914220402
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Posts: 442
By: Dobbins - 30th April 2012 at 20:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry yes you are right. Well spotted!
Posts: 282
By: shepsair - 30th April 2012 at 20:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
All I said was that the MOD would be looking at the available information - P40E, 260Sqn, summer 1942 as a start. Period.
P40 identity needs to be confirmed first of all and once confirmed, the pilot name will then be known.
After that, I do not know what would happen.
Whether there is any markers on the ground will need to be checked though the site has been disturbed. The area does not seem to be of loose stone to facilitate making markers. Aircraft parts do not seem to have been set away on top of a rocky area as directional markers either.
Believe the LBG crew were found in a very flat hard landscape and were partially visible on the terrain where they eventually surcumbed.
It seems the area consists of layers of rock and layers of sand which is impossible to search even if you had the manpower to do so.
I would hope any salvage team would search the approximate area including under the port wing where the parachute was. If not there, then unfortunately I believe any missing pilot would I believe remains missing.
regards
Mark
Posts: 282
By: shepsair - 30th April 2012 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
Pat/Andy,
Would you say the MOD are always involved anyway through RAF Innsworth??
As for this, needle in a field of haystacks rings a bell if you saw where it was.
Only gets easy when you know where the needle was placed to within a very small area in the haystack!
RAFM are the only ones who have the GPS location.
regards
Mark
Posts: 5,542
By: Dave Homewood - 30th April 2012 at 21:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Back when poor Steve Fossett went missing in the US desert and the massive search for him turned up 5 or 6 other lost aircraft (before he was ever found) I wondered then about what might still be out in the large deserts sitting there unlocated. The thought crossed my mind there may well be intact aeroplanes in the greater Sahara and one day someone will find one if there are. This find proves testament to that. If half a dozen modern aeroplanes were found in the small region they were looking for Mr Fossett in then imagine what might still lie out there inthe Sahara as well as this amazing P-40E.
Posts: 258
By: pat1968 - 30th April 2012 at 21:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Andy is far better qualified to comment on that although I suspect he may have to bite his lip!
Posts: 9,780
By: David Burke - 30th April 2012 at 22:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I guess the Egyptian military has the GPS location too and the people who discovered the wreck as well.
Posts: 10,166
By: Peter - 30th April 2012 at 22:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There was a panoramio link to a photo of a marker on google earth but I cant remember wether this was close to the crash or not? It showed an arrow made of rocks and was a recent picture..
Posts: 282
By: shepsair - 30th April 2012 at 22:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
The GPS was from the team that discovered her and the Egyptians work for the team as drivers etc.
Most of the Egyptians know the general location but not by GPS, not that it probably makes a difference.
GPS, limited but the important thing is the RAFM have it.
regards
Mark
By: Anonymous - 30th April 2012 at 22:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mark
Yes, JCCC Innsworth would certainly be very much part of the equation if a missing RAF casualty were involved and I would expect that they are already involved, with AHB, in pulling the casualty files for those who might already be considered possible 'candidates'. However, the remit of JCCC is not to search for or recover remains but to deal with remains that might be found and to organise burial and to deal with next of kin issues. In this respect, they do a wonderful job but they are not equipped to physically sarch and recover as the American JPAC teams are.
Posts: 550
By: JägerMarty - 30th April 2012 at 22:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Exactly, there's a RN Firefly wreck in Port Philip Bay in Melbourne which still has an English crew member aboard so I wouldn't hold my breath ..... :rolleyes:
Posts: 313
By: DC Page - 30th April 2012 at 22:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
On March 31st, 2012 at least 2 pictures were posted to the web that still contained valid EXIF data. The number of people who are in on this secret is no doubt growing by the minute. The fact that this piece of history is being "guarded" by the military of a country in turmoil gives me no comfort. Hoping for the best. Not holding my breath.
Posts: 504
By: Flat 12x2 - 30th April 2012 at 23:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
When Shay gave us the LG coordinates I put them into Google earth to have a look at any photos posted and saw the arrow you mentioned as in the link
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/27625168
It is 200 miles East of LG-185, but on the same radius from LG-106
It is amazing at the number of WWII army trucks still out there, also pictured on Google earth.
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 30th April 2012 at 23:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
and don't forget the Corsairs in Lake Sebago......
Posts: 10,166
By: Peter - 30th April 2012 at 23:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Fiat, is that related to the P40 then or??
Posts: 24
By: Shay - 1st May 2012 at 00:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If anyone is interested, here is where I got the coordinates from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_North_Africa_Airfields
There are plenty more and I entered EVERY one of the them into my copy of Google Earth. It was neat as it gave yet another glimpse into the war that most never think of beyond the text book. Accuracy i found in some cases isn't the greatest but you get the idea.
Regarding that arrow. I saw that while strolling through GE. I know the caption says Old Air Field but that's exactly the type of signal I'd expect from a downed pilot.
At the "8 Bells" location (22°46'58.57"N, 26°16'12.31"E ) The landing strip arrow and sign are made out of old British? gas cans?
From Panaranmio
There's a lot of desert out there and I doubt this will be the last relic to make a splash. It is amazzing the state of preservation of the Kittyhawk from the pics. I do wonder though after 70 years of intense UV how brittle items like the canavs, plexi, bakelite and plastic peices have become.
Shepsair - Do you know if that satilite image is referenced to true north? I figured based on the Sun's shadows and the time stamps of the various pictures provided that the Kittyhawk was pointing South. Maybe slightly South East, but not staight east.
Thx
Shay
____________
Semper Fortis
Posts: 743
By: DaveM2 - 1st May 2012 at 01:45 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't know if anyone has seen Doug Norrie's comments on 12 O'Clock High?
Dave
In photo 10 of the picasaweb series of pictures it clearly shows the ref. H-87A-3 stamped in the wing and a part no. starting with 87....which would in indicate it was one of 540 Kittyhawks produced with the a/c serials in my previous thread. According to 'Curtiss Fighter Aircraft 1917-1948' by Francis Dean and Dan Hagedorn, page 294, the 540 aircraft were bought by the British government in Contract A-1835 commencing with AK591, before Lend Lease took effect.
The pipe type exhausts indicate an early model Kittyhawk, Mk I or IA.
Looking through my Air Britain serials book (through the 540 a/c), assuming it is a 260 Sqd a/c, I could see only two possibles that could be considered:
AL134 lost on 7.9.1942
AK693 lost on 16.5.1942
If someone could check the 260 Sqd RAF ORB there may be some clues from the above dates.
I look forward to seeing if anyone can add any further info to what I have put forward.
Doug
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 1st May 2012 at 07:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would hardly call the Sierra Nevada mountains "a desert".
Here is a computer simulation of Fossett's crash site:
This site has aerial photos of the site:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jw4pix/5032540484/in/photostream/