By: paulmcmillan
- 26th June 2012 at 17:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That button says
made by s s d bros h v 1939
S S D Bros was a supplier to UK Military based in Aligarh, Utter Pradesh, North Western India
Sgt Coppings service number as previous stated #785025 was in a batch between 785000 to 786999 (highest known number 786379) issued in July 1940 to Local enlistments in Far East
Would uniforms in the Far East (to me meaning Burma, Hong Hong, Singapore etc) have been supplied from India?
I would have imagined Middle East uniforms would have been supplied more locally
New
By: Anonymous
- 26th June 2012 at 17:36Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good piece of detective work, Paul!
I had looked, but didn't find it.
Certainly seems credible that the button could well be associated, then. Although other possibilities cannot be excluded.
Meanwhile, this link on the Italian website is worth a view:
By: paulmcmillan
- 26th June 2012 at 17:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Also re: Elliots Metal Co Ltd Birmingham
This was not a scrap metal dealer that still exists (there is one in Reading of same name) but a subsidary company of ICI that made rolled brass and copper, copper wire and tube and was based in Selly Oak, Birmingham and also in Swansea
Interestingly one Neville Chamberlain was once a a director of this company..
New
By: Anonymous
- 26th June 2012 at 17:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, that is what I had found too.
Not sure where they discovered Elliot's were suppliers to the RAF. They may well have been, although for what its worth a different firm by that name (Elliot's), of course, provided the standard RAF wall clocks and sector clocks.
By: Vega ECM
- 26th June 2012 at 20:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Also re: Elliots Metal Co Ltd Birmingham
This was not a scrap metal dealer that still exists (there is one in Reading of same name) but a subsidary company of ICI that made rolled brass and copper, copper wire and tube and was based in Selly Oak, Birmingham and also in Swansea
Interestingly one Neville Chamberlain was once a a director of this company..
So I guess this is a name plate off a 127lb box of mixed copper alloying elements Be (Beryllium) & Sa (old chem symbol for Samaruim) . Both used with copper to make watch springs and non sparking tools etc.
By: TonyT
- 26th June 2012 at 20:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It would make sense to leave a trail of loose items, in case the plane was found, as for the chute parts, again sunshade during the day, warmth during the night.. Poor guy, it most of been horrific.
New
By: Anonymous
- 26th June 2012 at 21:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So I guess this is a name plate off a 127lb box of mixed copper alloying elements Be (Beryllium) & Sa (old chem symbol for Samaruim) . Both used with copper to make watch springs and non sparking tools etc.
Not exactly standard issue equipment, then.
The single punch-hole would fit with this being a tag that has been roughly banged onto a box or some other container. What it might be doing in a P40 pilot's pocket is a mystery. What it might be doing in the middle of the Sahara is quite another.
I suppose the only good thing is that TIGHAR are not involved, else the expositions would doubtless be endless.
By: Vega ECM
- 26th June 2012 at 22:25Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not exactly standard issue equipment, then.
The single punch-hole would fit with this being a tag that has been roughly banged onto a box or some other container. What it might be doing in a P40 pilot's pocket is a mystery. What it might be doing in the middle of the Sahara is quite another.
I suppose the only good thing is that TIGHAR are not involved, else the expositions would doubtless be endless.
Egypt was/is a major supplier of Be where it's picked up off the desert floor. I wonder if this has just fallen off a miners box while being transported over bumpy desert.
By: Phantom Phil
- 26th June 2012 at 23:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Only Just found her...
When it was mentioned a few pages back that finding this P40 was like finding a needle in a haystack, in a field full of haystacks was NO joke!! I have only just found her and you can't see her using Google Earth as the detail is poor. I ended up using Bing Maps...
Good news if they can verify the remains of that of F/Sgt Copping!
By: Phantom Phil
- 26th June 2012 at 23:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Funny you should mention that as I have come across what looks to be another aircraft while looking for the P40. It's more near the coast towards LG09. I'll give you more info when I look at it using Bing instead of Google!
By: ozjag
- 27th June 2012 at 01:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great work from the Qattara team.
I am disappointed even more now (although I should have expected it) after looking at their close up photos nearly all of the cockpit instruments have had their glass smashed and some of the warning lights have been removed or broken off. It is less like a time capsule every day. You can tell from their website that the Qattara guys are upset too.
I know in the end it's just a bunch of metal put together into a machine, but save the poor girl for heaven's sake!
I'd say she's earned some tender loving care out of the sun after all these years. If for no other reason then to remember the loss of the pilot who tried to save her.
By: qattara
- 27th June 2012 at 07:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I see what you mean, but the original does not help much. It says:
il compito affidato dalla Direzione, dalle Autorità britanniche, dal museo RAF.
the task entrusted by the Direction, by the British authorities, by the RAF Museum.
What "Direction"? I suppose the British authorities are the Embassy staff, but where does the RAFM come in? There is simply a comma!
__________________
Laurence
the direction is: chief of ARIDO ASSOCIATION the Governing Council approved the dispatch of the Association avev giving us some diretive
By: qattara
- 27th June 2012 at 08:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dear
The Italian flag that you can see in the pictures comes with us in all our expeditions and we raise it because we are Italians and for the photographs/videos.
It was temporary put (with the flag of our association) on the P40 during our staying there and was removed when we went on.
We do not leave anything behind us in the desert and we do not take with us anything that belongs to the desert.
Posts: 2,122
By: l.garey - 26th June 2012 at 16:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Andy:
I see what you mean, but the original does not help much. It says:
il compito affidato dalla Direzione, dalle Autorità britanniche, dal museo RAF.
the task entrusted by the Direction, by the British authorities, by the RAF Museum.
What "Direction"? I suppose the British authorities are the Embassy staff, but where does the RAFM come in? There is simply a comma!
Posts: 2,597
By: paulmcmillan - 26th June 2012 at 17:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That button says
made by s s d bros h v 1939
S S D Bros was a supplier to UK Military based in Aligarh, Utter Pradesh, North Western India
Sgt Coppings service number as previous stated #785025 was in a batch between 785000 to 786999 (highest known number 786379) issued in July 1940 to Local enlistments in Far East
Would uniforms in the Far East (to me meaning Burma, Hong Hong, Singapore etc) have been supplied from India?
I would have imagined Middle East uniforms would have been supplied more locally
By: Anonymous - 26th June 2012 at 17:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Good piece of detective work, Paul!
I had looked, but didn't find it.
Certainly seems credible that the button could well be associated, then. Although other possibilities cannot be excluded.
Meanwhile, this link on the Italian website is worth a view:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OWPg5FLh8o
Posts: 2,597
By: paulmcmillan - 26th June 2012 at 17:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Also re: Elliots Metal Co Ltd Birmingham
This was not a scrap metal dealer that still exists (there is one in Reading of same name) but a subsidary company of ICI that made rolled brass and copper, copper wire and tube and was based in Selly Oak, Birmingham and also in Swansea
Interestingly one Neville Chamberlain was once a a director of this company..
By: Anonymous - 26th June 2012 at 17:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, that is what I had found too.
Not sure where they discovered Elliot's were suppliers to the RAF. They may well have been, although for what its worth a different firm by that name (Elliot's), of course, provided the standard RAF wall clocks and sector clocks.
Posts: 472
By: Vega ECM - 26th June 2012 at 20:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So I guess this is a name plate off a 127lb box of mixed copper alloying elements Be (Beryllium) & Sa (old chem symbol for Samaruim) . Both used with copper to make watch springs and non sparking tools etc.
Posts: 8,961
By: TonyT - 26th June 2012 at 20:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It would make sense to leave a trail of loose items, in case the plane was found, as for the chute parts, again sunshade during the day, warmth during the night.. Poor guy, it most of been horrific.
By: Anonymous - 26th June 2012 at 21:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not exactly standard issue equipment, then.
The single punch-hole would fit with this being a tag that has been roughly banged onto a box or some other container. What it might be doing in a P40 pilot's pocket is a mystery. What it might be doing in the middle of the Sahara is quite another.
I suppose the only good thing is that TIGHAR are not involved, else the expositions would doubtless be endless.
Posts: 472
By: Vega ECM - 26th June 2012 at 22:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Egypt was/is a major supplier of Be where it's picked up off the desert floor. I wonder if this has just fallen off a miners box while being transported over bumpy desert.
Posts: 1,067
By: Phantom Phil - 26th June 2012 at 23:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Only Just found her...
When it was mentioned a few pages back that finding this P40 was like finding a needle in a haystack, in a field full of haystacks was NO joke!! I have only just found her and you can't see her using Google Earth as the detail is poor. I ended up using Bing Maps...
Good news if they can verify the remains of that of F/Sgt Copping!
Picture below:
Posts: 282
By: shepsair - 26th June 2012 at 23:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
P40
Well done Phantom Phil.
If you have some spare time, can you check the rest of the Sahara!:D:D
Try and find the 'Spitfire'.
regards
Mark
Posts: 1,067
By: Phantom Phil - 26th June 2012 at 23:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Funny you should mention that as I have come across what looks to be another aircraft while looking for the P40. It's more near the coast towards LG09. I'll give you more info when I look at it using Bing instead of Google!
Posts: 832
By: ozjag - 27th June 2012 at 01:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Great work from the Qattara team.
I am disappointed even more now (although I should have expected it) after looking at their close up photos nearly all of the cockpit instruments have had their glass smashed and some of the warning lights have been removed or broken off. It is less like a time capsule every day. You can tell from their website that the Qattara guys are upset too.
Paul
Posts: 667
By: critter592 - 27th June 2012 at 03:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have been following this thread from the start, but not posting...
I really do hope Flt Sgt Copping has at last been found.
Terrific work from the Qattara team. Well done chaps.
Posts: 2,122
By: l.garey - 27th June 2012 at 06:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Might the metal tag be related to the Polish oil-men's visit?
Posts: 933
By: Dan Johnson - 27th June 2012 at 06:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I know in the end it's just a bunch of metal put together into a machine, but save the poor girl for heaven's sake!
I'd say she's earned some tender loving care out of the sun after all these years. If for no other reason then to remember the loss of the pilot who tried to save her.
Posts: 52
By: qattara - 27th June 2012 at 07:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I see what you mean, but the original does not help much. It says:
il compito affidato dalla Direzione, dalle Autorità britanniche, dal museo RAF.
the task entrusted by the Direction, by the British authorities, by the RAF Museum.
What "Direction"? I suppose the British authorities are the Embassy staff, but where does the RAFM come in? There is simply a comma!
__________________
Laurence
the direction is: chief of ARIDO ASSOCIATION the Governing Council approved the dispatch of the Association avev giving us some diretive
Posts: 52
By: qattara - 27th June 2012 at 07:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
in my website there is a second pictures collection about the relics near the plane
Posts: 2,122
By: l.garey - 27th June 2012 at 08:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
qattara: re the direction is: chief of ARIDO ASSOCIATION the Governing Council approved the dispatch of the Association avev giving us some diretive
Thanks for clarifying.
Posts: 52
By: qattara - 27th June 2012 at 08:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dear
The Italian flag that you can see in the pictures comes with us in all our expeditions and we raise it because we are Italians and for the photographs/videos.
It was temporary put (with the flag of our association) on the P40 during our staying there and was removed when we went on.
We do not leave anything behind us in the desert and we do not take with us anything that belongs to the desert.
Regards
:)