Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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Profile picture for user l.garey

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15 years 6 months

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To try to get some answers from the British authorities in Cairo about actions they or the MOD are taking (or not taking) to resolve the question of the recovery and identification (or not) of the human remains found by the Italian team in the desert (see my post 161, above), I have written three times to Capt Collins, the Defence Attaché, and have received no answers or even acknowledgements. Yesterday (and again today) I sent an email to the ambassador, James Watt, but received the message that the embassy mailbox is full!!

Although my primary concern remains the fate of Dennis Copping, I wonder if there is any news about the fate of the Kittyhawk wreck, the last I heard of it being in a container at El Alamein.

Profile picture for user dko

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8 years 10 months

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It is not so easy to activate a procedure of removal of human remains from Egypt due to the archaeological history !
In my opinion there are too few elements to argue that those are the remains of Copping!
It was probably easier to recover the wreck…..but still is in Egypt !

So, as I understand things the letter sent by Peter Verney's MP is not exactly truthful.

According to the Italian team who discovered the remains they have stated in the last day or so, absolutely and categorically, that they have had NO contact from the British Embassy in Cairo.

Further, my understanding is that it is rather being economical with the facts for the MOD to suggest that it is in "....close contact with the family of Flt Sgt Copping".

Will we ever get to the truth, I wonder?

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14 years 11 months

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I feel like another email coming on asking my MP why his fellow MP's are lying to us.

Profile picture for user l.garey

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15 years 6 months

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Let it come, Tony. I think someone feels they can say just ANYTHING to keep us quiet and get away with it. If that is not true, maybe they will tell us!

Andy: will we ever get the truth? Only if people are honest with us.

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12 years 9 months

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2 e-mails now to my MP,still no response not even an automated one! come the next election i will not respond.....it,s a great pity that good manners are a thing of the past to a large number of people,nowadays...

regards
jack...

Profile picture for user charliehunt

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Let it come, Tony. I think someone feels they can say just ANYTHING to keep us quiet and get away with it. If that is not true, maybe they will tell us!

Picking my way through the complexities of this thread and trying to follow it through I have not understood why those who are being obstructive, are being obstructive. What have they to gain?

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9 years 3 months

Posts: 52

I read the new post that there is a lot of misinformation and confusion:
Medicolegal aspects: it is not true that it is difficult to get permission for the removal of bodies, we need to involve the right people! with the right motivation.
refers to previous cases and similar long survival in the desert
the aircraft that made ​​the crash were not bombers but fighters, the endowments are different!
if a person is healthy can go a long way, but not if it is injured!
mummified bodies:
in the case of the lady be good and others parts of the body that were under the sand were mummified but body parts above the sand were skeletal.
we asked an expert medicolegal report on the basis of photographs and the results are viewed, even with all its limitations, candles ways very encouraging.
we are at the beginning, but let's finish the job and not to defeat us from the beginning ....
I repeat, we have not taken any account we reported only what was found (bones, silk fabric, coin, button etc etc)
We spent a lot of Euros for missions, medico legal expert, experts in plane crashes, we did not ask anybody anything.
we wait

Profile picture for user PeterVerney

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12 years 4 months

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Charlie, as I know from long ago, the MOD work by the age old public service motto. "Do not make waves."
As for any response to the public. "Treat them like mushrooms".
And the method is "Keep them in the dark, and feed them on bullsh1t"

It works most of the time.

Qattara

So can you confirm, here, that the British Embassy in Cairo have NOT been in touch with you and your team as they state?

Profile picture for user Mark12

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21 years 8 months

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Something is odd here.

The bones are reported to have been found five kilometres away from the wreck. Some have said five miles.

Imagine what one square kilometre of barren rocky sand looks like then multiply it by 78 and that is the square area that you would have to systematically search to find the bones working out to the five kilometre radius location.

Strange. I don't think we are hearing the full story here.

Mark

That is a shame....

Qattara was on-line when I posted the above question, and afterwards, but chose not to reply.

Notwithstanding the information given to Laurence, it would be helpful if Qattara could publicly set out the circumstances and facts on this forum insofar as contact with the British Embassy is concerned.

Profile picture for user l.garey

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15 years 6 months

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I asked qattara if I could post the information about the lack of contact with his team, and he agreed.
The main mystery for me is why the embassy has not responded. My first attempt to contact the Defence Attaché was in June, with 2 more since then, and now a direct approach to the ambassador: the embassy technical service just replied to my report of the full mailbox (my post 167, above) that they can do nothing about it.

Thank you, Laurence, for that clarification.

The suggestion is thus clear; the Italian team are stating that the MOD statement is untrue. And yet an MP has declared that the British Embassy are in touch with the Italians.

Extraordinary.

Profile picture for user Bruce

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21 years 8 months

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Strange. I don't think we are hearing the full story here.

Indeed - not one of us posting here has all the details; I would go so far as to say that no one person anywhere has all the details as yet.

Bruce

Profile picture for user charliehunt

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8 years 11 months

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Charlie, as I know from long ago, the MOD work by the age old public service motto. "Do not make waves."
As for any response to the public. "Treat them like mushrooms".
And the method is "Keep them in the dark, and feed them on bullsh1t"

It works most of the time.

Thank you, Peter., It seems very cynical in such a sensitive matter, but I have to agree that from my limited experience of the Civil Service, not making waves is certainly part of the culture.. I was briefly trained in obfuscation!!

Having once worked in Local Government I pretty much have a degree in obfuscation! Its what I used to do, I am ashamed to say.

I can sense it a mile off. Mind you, it doesn't need a great deal of sensory perception to notice a brick wall of silence and misinformation.

Profile picture for user Peter

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21 years 8 months

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Just wondering .. do they think that the smoke and mirrors and the all important passing of time will make this go away??

Profile picture for user TwinOtter23

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Not wishing to underplay the importance of a satisfactory outcome to this investigation and recovery, but I keep wondering whether the embassy staff have other perhaps more pressing issues to deal with at this difficult time in the region.

Profile picture for user pat1968

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Not wishing to underplay the importance of a satisfactory outcome to this investigation and recovery, but I keep wondering whether the embassy staff have other perhaps more pressing issues to deal with at this difficult time in the region.

Whilst one would hope that this may well be true they do not even seem to have the man power available to empty their malbox! I don't think anyone here would argue that the embassy has many important things to do. It does not excuse a complete lack of any kind of response whatsoever. The response so far from the defense attache has been to dissmiss the remains found by Qattara and his team on the basis that (and my sincere apologes to Qattara and the other Italian team members) 'the information from them can not be relied upon' (that is a polite version) Quite how anyone could have come to that conclusion without any more information than any of us have is difficult to fathom. Whilst we are on the subject of better things to do remember that the defence attache managed to make the time to travel all the way to the crash site for the recovery of the aircraft. After making the time to lobby the Egytian government so that the recovery could be made in the first place. He apparently could not make the time to travel a further 8km (5 miles) to the site of the remains. If they are busy and are working on movng this forward as they are able why can they not just say that and stop treating us all like mushrooms! We are not fools and I am in no doubt that is how we are viewed.