By: jack windsor
- 1st July 2013 at 10:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hi,
I wish you luck with your proposal, at least it will nudge the media who hopefully will pressure the aurthorities to pull there finger out.Although your "survivor will do his best,at the back of his mind he will know a surport crew are at hand.
In the case of the Lady be Good,her surviving crew of 8 travelled 85mls on only 1/2 canteen of water,then 3 carried on, 1 for a extra 21mls,and a second a further 26mls.
But something needs to be done,so I hope you succeed.
By: dko
- 1st July 2013 at 10:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jack thanks for the encouragement, I hope others can support this idea !
First of all for such initiative must have the consent of the family of Copping so who
is in contact with the family could seek advice.
For the competitors we have to find three RAF pilots,young and brave that lend themselves
to a voluntary search of their old colleague.
The aim is noble ... then by all means are justified !
By: 467 sqn RAAF
- 1st July 2013 at 10:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The contrast I've witnessed between the UK and the USA in their attitudes towards their deceased war heroes is a revelation.
its disgraceful, the American's have a unit called JPAC (Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command) dedicated to finding service personnel who are still missing in action/killed in action body not recovered. Its just a shame that our government don't seem to take the same pride in finding/bringing home the remains of our personnel who gave their lives on active duty.
By: l.garey
- 1st July 2013 at 12:33Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I second that. In spite of all our attempted openings to the diplomatic and ministerial services, we are getting nowhere (officially). That said, to go exploring the Egyptian desert in today's social climate in that country would not be easy, or recommendable.
By: dko
- 1st July 2013 at 13:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The "Arab Spring" began in 2010 and since then it has been found the P40, "visited" by several expeditions and it was dismantled and taken away. Tourism in Egypt has continued without any restrictions!
So I think that today's social climate is not different from that of yesterday and that is not the main issue for this type of search.
By: jack windsor
- 1st July 2013 at 14:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I second that. In spite of all our attempted openings to the diplomatic and ministerial services, we are getting nowhere (officially). That said, to go exploring the Egyptian desert in today's social climate in that country would not be easy, or recommendable.
hi,
is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing? I wonder what help they gave to the a/c recovery,?
By: l.garey
- 1st July 2013 at 14:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
dko: by "today's social climate" I was referring to the widespread unrest in Egypt over the last few days. That is, indeed, different from what happened in the "Arab Spring". It may even be difficult to get permission to look for remains in the desert, let alone export them legally. The idea of "three RAF pilots,young and brave" being "abandoned or parachuted" in the desert would be hard to sell at this time.
Jack: "is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing?" I was already told last year that the Embassy was busy with other problems, presumably related to the Arab Spring. If you remember what I said a few months ago, the Defence Attaché informed me that the case was "closed".
I however applaud any legal attempt to recover Dennis Copping's remains.
By: jack windsor
- 1st July 2013 at 16:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jack: "is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing?" I was already told last year that the Embassy was busy with other problems, presumably related to the Arab Spring. If you remember what I said a few months ago, the Defence Attaché informed me that the case was "closed".
I however applaud any legal attempt to recover Dennis Copping's remains.[/QUOTE]
So the D.Att. was doing dogsbody duties then,helping sort the other problems ,but I wonder if he knows of the saying "chickens coming home to roost",if he thinks this case is closed...
By: Mark12
- 1st July 2013 at 17:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would have a very serious discussion about all this with the Italians first.
All may not be quite as it seems.
Mark
New
By: Anonymous
- 1st July 2013 at 17:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some very serious discussions have been had with the Italians.
All is certainly not as it seems.
However, the facts remain; Flt Sgt Copping is still missing, somebody (possibly more than one somebody) has not been playing with a straight bat and the British authorities have been shambolic in delivering facts to the family which have been, variously, misleading, incorrect and untruthful. It needs all players to be open and honest about all that has gone on. That includes factual information from the P40 salvor.
By: dko
- 1st July 2013 at 18:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mark, I agree with you, but we have to start something!
Perhaps the idea of the pilots or pensioners is curious but it is important
to join forces and do something with our own strength because no other
is more interested in the research of Dennis!
By: dko
- 3rd July 2013 at 18:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It is funny how the people today care more about planes buried rather than trying to bury their pilots!
(Spit Burma over 3000 posts - Pilot unburied in the desert less than 500 posts)
New
Posts: 4,796
By: ZRX61
- 3rd July 2013 at 18:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
saw a pic yesterday of the P40 being dismantled, the wing was separated from the fuselage.
By: DavidIsby
- 8th July 2013 at 14:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unfortunately, as this article shows, the US government continues to fail in similar issues to those discussed in this thread, despite having made vastly more resources (and rhetoric) devoted to the task than the UK government.
Posts: 923
By: jack windsor - 1st July 2013 at 10:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hi,
I wish you luck with your proposal, at least it will nudge the media who hopefully will pressure the aurthorities to pull there finger out.Although your "survivor will do his best,at the back of his mind he will know a surport crew are at hand.
In the case of the Lady be Good,her surviving crew of 8 travelled 85mls on only 1/2 canteen of water,then 3 carried on, 1 for a extra 21mls,and a second a further 26mls.
But something needs to be done,so I hope you succeed.
regards
jack...
Posts: 93
By: dko - 1st July 2013 at 10:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jack thanks for the encouragement, I hope others can support this idea !
First of all for such initiative must have the consent of the family of Copping so who
is in contact with the family could seek advice.
For the competitors we have to find three RAF pilots,young and brave that lend themselves
to a voluntary search of their old colleague.
The aim is noble ... then by all means are justified !
Posts: 150
By: 467 sqn RAAF - 1st July 2013 at 10:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
its disgraceful, the American's have a unit called JPAC (Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command) dedicated to finding service personnel who are still missing in action/killed in action body not recovered. Its just a shame that our government don't seem to take the same pride in finding/bringing home the remains of our personnel who gave their lives on active duty.
Posts: 2,119
By: l.garey - 1st July 2013 at 12:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I second that. In spite of all our attempted openings to the diplomatic and ministerial services, we are getting nowhere (officially). That said, to go exploring the Egyptian desert in today's social climate in that country would not be easy, or recommendable.
Posts: 93
By: dko - 1st July 2013 at 13:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The "Arab Spring" began in 2010 and since then it has been found the P40, "visited" by several expeditions and it was dismantled and taken away. Tourism in Egypt has continued without any restrictions!
So I think that today's social climate is not different from that of yesterday and that is not the main issue for this type of search.
Posts: 923
By: jack windsor - 1st July 2013 at 14:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
hi,
is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing? I wonder what help they gave to the a/c recovery,?
regards
jack...
Posts: 2,119
By: l.garey - 1st July 2013 at 14:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
dko: by "today's social climate" I was referring to the widespread unrest in Egypt over the last few days. That is, indeed, different from what happened in the "Arab Spring". It may even be difficult to get permission to look for remains in the desert, let alone export them legally. The idea of "three RAF pilots,young and brave" being "abandoned or parachuted" in the desert would be hard to sell at this time.
Jack: "is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing?" I was already told last year that the Embassy was busy with other problems, presumably related to the Arab Spring. If you remember what I said a few months ago, the Defence Attaché informed me that the case was "closed".
I however applaud any legal attempt to recover Dennis Copping's remains.
Posts: 923
By: jack windsor - 1st July 2013 at 16:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Jack: "is this not a ready made excuse, for our embassy doing nothing?" I was already told last year that the Embassy was busy with other problems, presumably related to the Arab Spring. If you remember what I said a few months ago, the Defence Attaché informed me that the case was "closed".
I however applaud any legal attempt to recover Dennis Copping's remains.[/QUOTE]
So the D.Att. was doing dogsbody duties then,helping sort the other problems ,but I wonder if he knows of the saying "chickens coming home to roost",if he thinks this case is closed...
regards
jack...
Posts: 93
By: dko - 1st July 2013 at 17:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Laurence,
if we do not find in the RAF three young pilots available
we will have to fall back on three brave pensioners, I'm there ... who else ?
Posts: 2,119
By: l.garey - 1st July 2013 at 17:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It's a bit warm out in the desert now, but later .. I'm on! (Note my avatar photo of me recording some tyres I found in the Arabian desert!)
Posts: 10,029
By: Mark12 - 1st July 2013 at 17:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I would have a very serious discussion about all this with the Italians first.
All may not be quite as it seems.
Mark
By: Anonymous - 1st July 2013 at 17:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some very serious discussions have been had with the Italians.
All is certainly not as it seems.
However, the facts remain; Flt Sgt Copping is still missing, somebody (possibly more than one somebody) has not been playing with a straight bat and the British authorities have been shambolic in delivering facts to the family which have been, variously, misleading, incorrect and untruthful. It needs all players to be open and honest about all that has gone on. That includes factual information from the P40 salvor.
Posts: 93
By: dko - 1st July 2013 at 18:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mark, I agree with you, but we have to start something!
Perhaps the idea of the pilots or pensioners is curious but it is important
to join forces and do something with our own strength because no other
is more interested in the research of Dennis!
Posts: 93
By: dko - 3rd July 2013 at 18:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It is funny how the people today care more about planes buried rather than trying to bury their pilots!
(Spit Burma over 3000 posts - Pilot unburied in the desert less than 500 posts)
Posts: 4,796
By: ZRX61 - 3rd July 2013 at 18:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
saw a pic yesterday of the P40 being dismantled, the wing was separated from the fuselage.
Posts: 9,780
By: David Burke - 3rd July 2013 at 18:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
dko -I think the 500 posts have a high value . The majority of the 3000 posts are of little consequence -just hunting shadows!
Posts: 10,029
By: Mark12 - 3rd July 2013 at 19:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It was dismantled by a team of professional Warbird engineers at night under flood lights. Top Job.
Mark
By: Anonymous - 7th July 2013 at 20:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Not sure if the video here has been seen before:
http://www.warhistoryonline.com/whotube-2/who-tube-kittyhawk-in-the-egyptian-desert.html
Posts: 586
By: DavidIsby - 8th July 2013 at 14:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unfortunately, as this article shows, the US government continues to fail in similar issues to those discussed in this thread, despite having made vastly more resources (and rhetoric) devoted to the task than the UK government.
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-impact-mia-work-acutely-dysfunctional
By: Anonymous - 8th July 2013 at 20:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Certainly enlightening and troubling, although at least the US has officially made some kind of effort to bring home their MIAs across the years.