should Indonesia bail out on KFX?

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

now that janes has revealed the Koreans are basically going for a glorified F-16 variant with side intakes and faceted fueselage

http://www.janes.com/images/assets/295/29295/1517176-main.jpg

Original post

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 3,381

No. Regardless of configuration KF-X will accrue valuable industrial benefits to Indonesia, and the aircraft will offer a modern, affordable complement to future high-end platforms such as T-50 -- certainly far moreso than the likely alternative of more, increasingly rickety F-16s.

Indeed, Indonesia would probably prefer a config like that depicted above (F100/110 propulsion one assumes) to a heavier platform in the class of F-35.

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

No. Regardless of configuration KF-X will accrue valuable industrial benefits to Indonesia, and the aircraft will offer a modern, affordable complement to future high-end platforms such as T-50 -- certainly far moreso than the likely alternative of more, increasingly rickety F-16s.

Indeed, Indonesia would probably prefer a config like that depicted above (F100/110 propulsion one assumes) to a heavier platform in the class of F-35.

you guys can go with Turkey's program instead
http://militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs/tai-tfx-fighter.jpg

TAI probably doesn't face the same level of political pressure from the US as S.Korea does

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 3,381

If they could sort out the workshare issues a joint Korean-Turkish program with SAAB assistance still makes excellent sense. With both nations being confronted recently with cost issues, perhaps a compromise is still possible...

Member for

11 years 4 months

Posts: 976

If they could sort out the workshare issues a joint Korean-Turkish program with SAAB assistance still makes excellent sense. With both nations being confronted recently with cost issues, perhaps a compromise is still possible...

The best work share would be Korea - Turkey - Brazil this would allow good order numbers from the 3 main players 4 if you included Sweden of up 350 -400 air-frames before exports

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 3,381

I don't think Sweden would be interested in an aircraft configured as above -- it wouldn't seem to offer any advantage over Gripen E/F besides size, which is likely a disadvantage from the Swedish perspective, i.e. more expensive to acquire/operate.

Member for

18 years 3 months

Posts: 5,267

now that janes has revealed the Koreans are basically going for a glorified F-16 variant with side intakes and faceted fueselage

http://www.janes.com/images/assets/295/29295/1517176-main.jpg

I think you would of bowled me over if it had been any other configuration. It is an entirely logical step on from T-50 utilising what they have experienced with their F-16 work. What interests me is KFX exactly fills a market segment that the US is vacating when the F16 eventually finishes production, if they can keep the price figure close to an F-16 and below F-35 I can see some interested customers out there.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 3,381

Gripen E/F is closer to F-16 in the early-middle stages of its life, i.e. the aircraft that conquered the west.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 506

now that janes has revealed the Koreans are basically going for a glorified F-16 variant with side intakes and faceted fueselage

http://www.janes.com/images/assets/295/29295/1517176-main.jpg

Is still better then F-16 block 15 OCU MLU or F-16 block 25 MLU (CUPID/Combat Upgrades Plan Integrations Details) that are and will be the back bone of Indonesian AF up to 2020+. Even with that singgle engine configuration, that KFX will provide valuable learning curve for Indonesian.

Besides that single engine design is more realistic on getting the project within the plan budget and targeted price range.

Member for

11 years 4 months

Posts: 976

Why not include India too? :o

I don't think Sweden would be interested in an aircraft configured as above -- it wouldn't seem to offer any advantage over Gripen E/F besides size, which is likely a disadvantage from the Swedish perspective, i.e. more expensive to acquire/operate.

and that is why I put Sweden as an out side 4th

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 2,040

Is still better then F-16 block 15 OCU MLU or F-16 block 25 MLU (CUPID/Combat Upgrades Plan Integrations Details) that are and will be the back bone of Indonesian AF up to 2020+. Even with that singgle engine configuration, that KFX will provide valuable learning curve for Indonesian.

Besides that single engine design is more realistic on getting the project within the plan budget and targeted price range.

since the project isn't very far a long yet,
Indonesia could work with other partners such as Turkey or India which is seeking to field heavier options.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 3,381

With respect to the Turks, I think the Korean project has a better prospect of coming to fruition in some form. If Turkey does go forward, alone, I expect the aircraft will be a Turkified Gripen E/F. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 184

of cos! korean cannot make anything on their own
trainer is base on lockheed design!!
helicopter base on eurocopter design!!
tank is based on m1
they need big help from some one else.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 9,579

of cos! korean cannot make anything on their own
trainer is base on lockheed design!!
helicopter base on eurocopter design!!
tank is based on m1
they need big help from some one else.

Just like China!
L-15 > Yak copy + Yak help
Tanks > Russian guns, Ukrainian engines, largely based on Soviet school of thought
Helicopters > WZ-10 made with Kamov assistance

China needs help making pretty much everything it seems.

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 8,850

True. But I have not heard any claims about foreign help with J-31.

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 8,850

That's no big deal. Even Rafale started its career with foreign engine. Gripen has kept it until today.
I mean general aerodynamic layout now.

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 184

Just like China!
L-15 > Yak copy + Yak help
Tanks > Russian guns, Ukrainian engines, largely based on Soviet school of thought
Helicopters > WZ-10 made with Kamov assistance

China needs help making pretty much everything it seems.

wow you stalk me every where and always reply to me. it is so creepy
but cannot forgive your ignorance.

l15 is like italian m354. the yak design was not good so like italia china made better version
new chinese tank do not use russian gun or ukraine engine. I dont know where you learn this? it is not 1960 anymore. china make tank other than local version of t55
wz10 and kamov? hahahahahahaha
you look at wz10?

this is wz10
http://sobchak.files.wordpress.com/2008/08/wz10.jpg

this is kamov
http://www.helis.com/h/ka50_2.jpg

they do not look alike. totally different style.
kamov is 1980 design. wz10 is 2000 design. how can kamov teach chinese how to make something they cannot make themself?

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 8,850


wz10 and kamov? hahahahahahaha
you look at wz10?

they do not look alike. totally different style.
kamov is 1980 design. wz10 is 2000 design. how can kamov teach chinese how to make something they cannot make themself?


They don't have to look alike. The conceptual design of the WZ-10 was still made by Kamov.

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/forums/kamov-reveals-involvement-in-chinas-z-10-attack-93068.aspx
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2013-03-15/kamov-reveals-involvement-chinas-z-10-attack-helicopter

Member for

10 years 11 months

Posts: 184

They don't have to look alike. The conceptual design of the WZ-10 was still made by Kamov.

http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/forums/kamov-reveals-involvement-in-chinas-z-10-attack-93068.aspx
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ain-defense-perspective/2013-03-15/kamov-reveals-involvement-chinas-z-10-attack-helicopter

russians say many thing. you know russian say j20 came from old mig design too? they also say wz10 came from south african helicopter.
but you never hear chinese side saying that. there is big problem in russia today. every time china make something, russian is quick to say it came from russia.
china doing its best to be good freiend and ally to russia but russia have some kind of inferiority complex when it come ot chinese design.
you can see how much it bother tr1.

Member for

13 years 5 months

Posts: 506

since the project isn't very far a long yet,
Indonesia could work with other partners such as Turkey or India which is seeking to field heavier options.

It can be an option, if there are other partnership that already moving ahead. KF-X is still not definitive yet on the end result. However so far from Indonesian side, this is the only parnership that have prospect as learning curve on taking in the fighters game.

Member for

14 years 1 month

Posts: 8,850

russians say many thing. you know russian say j20 came from old mig design too? they also say wz10 came from south african helicopter.
but you never hear chinese side saying that. there is big problem in russia today. every time china make something, russian is quick to say it came from russia.
china doing its best to be good freiend and ally to russia but russia have some kind of inferiority complex when it come ot chinese design.
you can see how much it bother tr1.
Of course you never hear Chinese side say that. What else would you expect from people who claim even J-11 and J-15 as their own designs?