By: mike currill
- 10th February 2015 at 13:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
More importantly who had the stupid idea that the nav's window had to be blanked out so that he couldn't cheat on his navigation. It was down by his right knee for goodness sake, he'd have to have been a contortionist to see out of it and at the speed they'd have been travelling it would have been little use anyway.
By: sandiego89
- 10th February 2015 at 14:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
k, or face burried in
.
Who dreamed that one up?
I believe there was some truth that the early radar scopes gave poor resolution (tough to see) in sun light, so it was deemed appropriate to have the Nav in a dark space, or have a hood over the radar scope that the Nav could peer into. So either in the dark, or face burried in the hood. I am sure the nav would much rather have a good view for the the 90+% of the time they were not peering into the scope
By: Wyvernfan
- 10th February 2015 at 18:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I was on " Eagle " with 804 Squadron, Seahawks, in 1954-55 and have quite a few photos of this era. " Winkle " Brown was our CO. I will see if I can post photos of this time. 802 also Seahawks, 813 Wyverns, 849 Gannets, 845 Whirwinds.
As I've said before, bleeming, a photographic contribution from yourself would be very welcome (especially of Wyverns :applause:)
By: alertken
- 15th February 2015 at 10:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Gerry R #14 - anti-carrier Labour Govt.
Wilson's (HW) lot got in 16/10/64, same day as China's A-Test. Inherited RN Plan was: 52 F-4K for Victorious/Ark/Eagle; to be replaced by CVAs (V from 1972, R, 1977, J 1984-ish). 30 Buccaneer S.2 were on order, more sought; 23 Red Beard Mk.2 A-Bombs on hand, Improved Kiloton Bomb in development (to be WE.177A). 5 SSBNs Planned, possibly to include Indian O. patrols.
India's PM Shastri visited HW 3/12/64 as part of a wide foray seeking a nuclear Guarantee against China. HW visited LBJ 8/12/64 to ease Defence Budget: HW deflected US lures to enter SE.Asia; did agree to remain in SEATO and to retain UK's nuclear contribution (which then was 45 Sqd/Tengah (Red Beard) and a CV (Scimitar or Buccaneer S.1/Red Beard) normally available on FE Station). LBJ offered the credit package which led to F-4M, C-130K and Option F-111K.
6/4/65, he chopped TSR.2 and took 40 strike F-111K on option for NEAF/FEAF with the Improved Kiloton Bomb. 17/5/65, he initiated AFVG/RN, 10/65 bought 17 more Buccaneer S.2s, all for the CVAs.
India abandoned notions of friends' nuclear umbrella and embarked on the process where today she has a blue water nuclear Power Projection capability. HW continued to permit RN to explore Indian O. patrols for 1 of the 4 confirmed SSBNs (that lingered into 1968).
Parlous UK finances caused CVA/AFVG/RN chop 22/2/66; he ordered 30 more Buccaneer S.2 4/66 and soon 66 WE.177A (maybe 30 for the Buccs, the others as NDBs). So thus it was as Eagle began its FE Commission of this thread (8/67 - 6/68). China fired its H-Bomb 17/7/67. Money, again, caused F-111K chop 1/68, announcement of UK withdrawal from East of Suez by 1971; reduction of CV to 1, which settled on R to avoid J refit for F-4K.
Wilson's lot were neither anti-carrier nor anti-help to SEATO (1965 Defence White Paper: "nuclear policy must help to provide some reassurance to out-of-Nato-area non-nuclear Powers"). They were broke.
By: Bager1968
- 16th February 2015 at 03:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Everything I've read was that V would still have been operating Sea Vixens upon replacement in 1972, as she simply would not have been able to be sufficiently modified for Phantoms (insufficient room for catapults of sufficient length, etc).
By: slicer
- 16th February 2015 at 15:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wonderful photographs. They bring back memories of reading my father's eagerly awaited issues of Flight Deck. Shiny paper and beautiful pictures. He also served with 703 Trials Squadron at Ford on Attackers,re the interesting if indistinct photo in this thread.
Looking critically at the Sea Vixen/condensation flash picture makes me think it may be a montage or photoshopped. It doesn't quite hang together.
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 9th February 2015 at 16:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Cracking photos. Thanks for sharing them. Love the Bucc being thrown into the air.
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 10th February 2015 at 11:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I met up last week with a guy who had been the Nav on Sea Vixen.
He really wasn't very complimentary about 'the coal hole'
Surprisingly it seemed the pilots never showed much in the way of sympathy for the poor sod stuck in there.
Who dreamed that one up?
Moggy
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 10th February 2015 at 13:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
More importantly who had the stupid idea that the nav's window had to be blanked out so that he couldn't cheat on his navigation. It was down by his right knee for goodness sake, he'd have to have been a contortionist to see out of it and at the speed they'd have been travelling it would have been little use anyway.
Posts: 353
By: sandiego89 - 10th February 2015 at 14:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
k, or face burried in
I believe there was some truth that the early radar scopes gave poor resolution (tough to see) in sun light, so it was deemed appropriate to have the Nav in a dark space, or have a hood over the radar scope that the Nav could peer into. So either in the dark, or face burried in the hood. I am sure the nav would much rather have a good view for the the 90+% of the time they were not peering into the scope
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 10th February 2015 at 15:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes indeed, that was the gist of my conversation with Stan.
Moggy
Posts: 6,000
By: Wyvernfan - 10th February 2015 at 18:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As I've said before, bleeming, a photographic contribution from yourself would be very welcome (especially of Wyverns :applause:)
Rob
Posts: 887
By: alertken - 15th February 2015 at 10:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Gerry R #14 - anti-carrier Labour Govt.
Wilson's (HW) lot got in 16/10/64, same day as China's A-Test. Inherited RN Plan was: 52 F-4K for Victorious/Ark/Eagle; to be replaced by CVAs (V from 1972, R, 1977, J 1984-ish). 30 Buccaneer S.2 were on order, more sought; 23 Red Beard Mk.2 A-Bombs on hand, Improved Kiloton Bomb in development (to be WE.177A). 5 SSBNs Planned, possibly to include Indian O. patrols.
India's PM Shastri visited HW 3/12/64 as part of a wide foray seeking a nuclear Guarantee against China. HW visited LBJ 8/12/64 to ease Defence Budget: HW deflected US lures to enter SE.Asia; did agree to remain in SEATO and to retain UK's nuclear contribution (which then was 45 Sqd/Tengah (Red Beard) and a CV (Scimitar or Buccaneer S.1/Red Beard) normally available on FE Station). LBJ offered the credit package which led to F-4M, C-130K and Option F-111K.
6/4/65, he chopped TSR.2 and took 40 strike F-111K on option for NEAF/FEAF with the Improved Kiloton Bomb. 17/5/65, he initiated AFVG/RN, 10/65 bought 17 more Buccaneer S.2s, all for the CVAs.
India abandoned notions of friends' nuclear umbrella and embarked on the process where today she has a blue water nuclear Power Projection capability. HW continued to permit RN to explore Indian O. patrols for 1 of the 4 confirmed SSBNs (that lingered into 1968).
Parlous UK finances caused CVA/AFVG/RN chop 22/2/66; he ordered 30 more Buccaneer S.2 4/66 and soon 66 WE.177A (maybe 30 for the Buccs, the others as NDBs). So thus it was as Eagle began its FE Commission of this thread (8/67 - 6/68). China fired its H-Bomb 17/7/67. Money, again, caused F-111K chop 1/68, announcement of UK withdrawal from East of Suez by 1971; reduction of CV to 1, which settled on R to avoid J refit for F-4K.
Wilson's lot were neither anti-carrier nor anti-help to SEATO (1965 Defence White Paper: "nuclear policy must help to provide some reassurance to out-of-Nato-area non-nuclear Powers"). They were broke.
Posts: 415
By: AgCat - 15th February 2015 at 11:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi AK: That is a most useful summary of events. Thanks.
Posts: 3,614
By: Bager1968 - 16th February 2015 at 03:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Everything I've read was that V would still have been operating Sea Vixens upon replacement in 1972, as she simply would not have been able to be sufficiently modified for Phantoms (insufficient room for catapults of sufficient length, etc).
Posts: 652
By: slicer - 16th February 2015 at 15:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wonderful photographs. They bring back memories of reading my father's eagerly awaited issues of Flight Deck. Shiny paper and beautiful pictures. He also served with 703 Trials Squadron at Ford on Attackers,re the interesting if indistinct photo in this thread.
Looking critically at the Sea Vixen/condensation flash picture makes me think it may be a montage or photoshopped. It doesn't quite hang together.