By: Lyffe
- 10th August 2015 at 15:16Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I apolgise for not reading all the 2000+ posts on this thread, but most that I have seem to be about the political aspects of recovering the aircraft - and who is right or wrong - few, if any, have considered what it must have been like for the pilot, assuming he survived.
Last July I started tracing the story of F/Sgt Mickolajczak who force-landed a Kittyhawk in the Nubian desert on 9 May 1942. He survived the landing but died the following day leaving letters and notes describing his last hours almost to the moment of death. These were by his side when the crash site was found 20 days later. #7 of the thread http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?19012-Sgt-Mikolajczak makes all that has been written here pale into insignificance.
By: dko
- 27th August 2015 at 17:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The story of the Sgt Mickolajczak is very attractive and has many similarities with the fate of Dennis Copping!
I know that part of the Nubian desert and for that I am interested in more details about the crash and the possible coordinates. It would probably be possible to find some trace of the wreck or remains of the pilot!
By: Lysanderlover
- 27th August 2015 at 20:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Copping mystery will hopefully reach a conclusion at some point so the family will have closure after all of these years. It is a shame the P-40 exhibited at the RAFM is really not representative of the type in RAF service and more of a mock-up than a proper museum exhibit. If the Copping aircraft is not available to Hendon one would hope the RAFM will find a more suitable P-40 for exhibition in the not too distant future.
By: jeepman
- 28th August 2015 at 00:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Following an FoI request to the RAFM, summary minutes of the Acquisitions and Disposals Committe are now available on the website, as per the FoI Publication Scheme. The following minutes are relevant - and also interesting for other reasons.
By: DaveF68
- 28th August 2015 at 01:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Following an FoI request to the RAFM, summary minutes of the Acquisitions and Disposals Committe are now available on the website, as per the FoI Publication Scheme. The following minutes are relevant - and also interesting for other reasons.
By: Flying_Pencil
- 28th August 2015 at 19:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I apologize if I posted the photo with the exhibits, but it was just to show the correspondence of the place.
now we no longer have any interest in research on the case of p40, after all planned steps (information at the embassy cairo, Egyptian authorities, on-site surveys and technical experts, doctors, lawyers, universities etc.) and have only got discredited and obstacles to our business which strangely ended only after the theft of the bones, we just have to get back to our work and always follow up with continued interest next what's new.
But do you know where is the container that has disappeared from Alamein?
It is very unfortunate and shameful you are getting blamed for simply finding a P-40 and its unfortunate pilot!
It seems you where very respectful and careful about what you found.
You are very honorable.
I hope your work will prosper.
Jest to bardzo niefortunne i karygodne są coraz winić tylko znalezienie P-40 i jego niefortunne pilotem!
Wydaje się, gdzie bardzo szacunkiem i uważać na to, co można znaleźć.
Jesteś bardzo honorowy.
By: Moggy C
- 5th January 2016 at 07:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For what it is worth there are reports from a couple of sources, unconfirmed in any way, that the P40 container is no longer in the Middle East - but is now in the US.
By: John Green
- 5th January 2016 at 11:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's hope that they do just that. Better a 'live' exhibit than a dead one occupying yet more museum floor space - and a rather more fitting memorial to Dennis Copping.
By: DaveF68
- 5th January 2016 at 12:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For what it is worth there are reports from a couple of sources, unconfirmed in any way, that the P40 container is no longer in the Middle East - but is now in the US.
Moggy
If that turns out to be true, no wonder heads rolled at RAFM
By: DoraNineFan
- 5th January 2016 at 13:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If that turns out to be true, no wonder heads rolled at RAFM
Anything is better than it sitting in a region that will be unstable into the foreseeable future. No doubt that if certain types discovered it as a "symbol" of the US, it would be wrapped in explosives for an after-prayer bonfire.
Perhaps it is taking a surreptitious route to the UK.....
By: jeepman
- 5th January 2016 at 16:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The longer this went on, the more obvious it was that this was the sort of thing that would happen.
I find it incredible that the RAF Museum traded a Spitfire airframe with Kennet Aviation to recover the P40 only for it to ultimately apparently end up in the hands of some rich American. Perhaps the ultimate custodian of the P40 should now make a substantial donation to the RAF Museum for facilitating the recovery of the airframe.
Surely the RAFM officer who signed off the Kennet deal should be properly held to account and not just allowed to sail off into the sunset...................
I would have thought the Museum's legal advisors have some explaining to do as well
Posts: 2,123
By: l.garey - 19th October 2014 at 15:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have no further news, sadly.
Posts: 1,777
By: DaveF68 - 20th October 2014 at 10:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Other than the RAFM annual report and planning applications mentioning it, nothing tangible has happened yet.
Posts: 367
By: Lyffe - 10th August 2015 at 15:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I apolgise for not reading all the 2000+ posts on this thread, but most that I have seem to be about the political aspects of recovering the aircraft - and who is right or wrong - few, if any, have considered what it must have been like for the pilot, assuming he survived.
Last July I started tracing the story of F/Sgt Mickolajczak who force-landed a Kittyhawk in the Nubian desert on 9 May 1942. He survived the landing but died the following day leaving letters and notes describing his last hours almost to the moment of death. These were by his side when the crash site was found 20 days later. #7 of the thread http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?19012-Sgt-Mikolajczak makes all that has been written here pale into insignificance.
Posts: 93
By: dko - 27th August 2015 at 17:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The story of the Sgt Mickolajczak is very attractive and has many similarities with the fate of Dennis Copping!
I know that part of the Nubian desert and for that I am interested in more details about the crash and the possible coordinates. It would probably be possible to find some trace of the wreck or remains of the pilot!
Posts: 86
By: Lysanderlover - 27th August 2015 at 20:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Copping mystery will hopefully reach a conclusion at some point so the family will have closure after all of these years. It is a shame the P-40 exhibited at the RAFM is really not representative of the type in RAF service and more of a mock-up than a proper museum exhibit. If the Copping aircraft is not available to Hendon one would hope the RAFM will find a more suitable P-40 for exhibition in the not too distant future.
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 28th August 2015 at 00:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Following an FoI request to the RAFM, summary minutes of the Acquisitions and Disposals Committe are now available on the website, as per the FoI Publication Scheme. The following minutes are relevant - and also interesting for other reasons.
http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/documents/freedom_of_information/A_and_D_Meeting_summaries/October_to_December_2012_A_and_D_Committee.pdf
Posts: 1,777
By: DaveF68 - 28th August 2015 at 01:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Very interesting, especially the Havoc line, as Pacific Wrecks site says they traded Big Nig to the UK for A Spitfire. http://www.pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/a-20/43-9436.html
Posts: 722
By: Flying_Pencil - 28th August 2015 at 19:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It is very unfortunate and shameful you are getting blamed for simply finding a P-40 and its unfortunate pilot!
It seems you where very respectful and careful about what you found.
You are very honorable.
I hope your work will prosper.
Jest to bardzo niefortunne i karygodne są coraz winić tylko znalezienie P-40 i jego niefortunne pilotem!
Wydaje się, gdzie bardzo szacunkiem i uważać na to, co można znaleźć.
Jesteś bardzo honorowy.
Mam nadzieję, że twoja praca będzie prosperować.
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 5th January 2016 at 07:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For what it is worth there are reports from a couple of sources, unconfirmed in any way, that the P40 container is no longer in the Middle East - but is now in the US.
Moggy
Posts: 985
By: David_Kavangh - 5th January 2016 at 09:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That's a shame. The Americans will probably restore it to flight and lose all historical integrity, rather than conserve a WW2 time capsule.
Posts: 9,780
By: David Burke - 5th January 2016 at 11:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unfortunately its all a very sad story .
Posts: 93
By: dko - 5th January 2016 at 11:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
...I have no words !!
Anyway I continue to search Dennis Copping in the Sahara desert.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 5th January 2016 at 11:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's hope that they do just that. Better a 'live' exhibit than a dead one occupying yet more museum floor space - and a rather more fitting memorial to Dennis Copping.
Posts: 1,777
By: DaveF68 - 5th January 2016 at 12:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If that turns out to be true, no wonder heads rolled at RAFM
Posts: 233
By: DoraNineFan - 5th January 2016 at 13:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Anything is better than it sitting in a region that will be unstable into the foreseeable future. No doubt that if certain types discovered it as a "symbol" of the US, it would be wrapped in explosives for an after-prayer bonfire.
Perhaps it is taking a surreptitious route to the UK.....
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 5th January 2016 at 13:53 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You have to love an optimist :D
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 5th January 2016 at 16:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Wouldn't surprise me at all - money talks wherever in the world you are.
For me, it would be a travesty if it were returned to flight, with large numbers of new parts, just because we can. Time will tell.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 5th January 2016 at 16:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
So, you're not a supporter of Shuttleworth ?
Posts: 1,988
By: jeepman - 5th January 2016 at 16:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The longer this went on, the more obvious it was that this was the sort of thing that would happen.
I find it incredible that the RAF Museum traded a Spitfire airframe with Kennet Aviation to recover the P40 only for it to ultimately apparently end up in the hands of some rich American. Perhaps the ultimate custodian of the P40 should now make a substantial donation to the RAF Museum for facilitating the recovery of the airframe.
Surely the RAFM officer who signed off the Kennet deal should be properly held to account and not just allowed to sail off into the sunset...................
I would have thought the Museum's legal advisors have some explaining to do as well
Posts: 261
By: markb - 5th January 2016 at 18:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's establish some facts before we start getting all angry and "offended", please.