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By: - 7th September 2015 at 23:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the BBC refer to the 'Islamic State' as the 'so-called Islamic State' because they're not actually a 'state'...
...not in the way that a 'state' is usually recognised by the United Nations and other states.
By: - 8th September 2015 at 10:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
"No one wants to talk in the media about this..." except the 99% of the media that is already talking about it.
By: - 8th September 2015 at 14:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes - that was my thought too, when I read the thread.....:confused:
By: - 8th September 2015 at 18:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Seafuryfan
Yes, what you've written needs to be aired again and again. You're probably in a minority of a few, especially where this forum is concerned - but, they can be ignored.
The core concern of your comment is how do we separate the 'wheat from the chaff' ? How do we ensure that only those who support our way of life and our culture are accepted - not too much to ask.
The answer is; you can't. There are no means of screening for selectivity or suitability. We have to take what is on offer and hope for the best. It isn't yet generally recognised that some aspects of life can never be reconciled one to the other. and that is our current problem.
By: - 8th September 2015 at 18:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is a growing problem with extremism, and obviously some of that has to do with the UKs foreign policy. But it also goes much further still. In my many discussions with Muslims from around the UK, I can confirm that these are widely held beliefs:
- 911 is/was a conspiracy. Either by the CIA or the Zionists. There is little acceptance that it could have been Islamic extremists.
- The Holocaust did not happen, or it did but at nothing like the scale Western history acknowledges.
- Pretty much every ill in the middle east is due to the UK/USA, Saudi Arabia or Israel (or Israhell as many refer to it). There is never any acceptance that there are deep cultural and religious issues.
- Gaza/Palestine is the worst tragedy in human history. Only the Zionists are to blame, the Palestinians are totally innocent.
- any suggestion that the barbaric practices of FGM, forced marriages, incest, homophobia, racism, apostasy and blasphemy laws etc need changing is met with 'it does, but in baby steps'. (never mind the poor victims?!)
I think that anti-Semitism has become so ingrained in our Muslim communities, that they do not see that this has become a common path to extremism. I am fortunate to count a couple of moderate Muslims among my close friends, and they would be the first to tell you that anti-Semitic rhetoric is a growing problem.
By: - 8th September 2015 at 19:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is this any different to any other period of time.
I'm sure that with every war or conflict there has been a corresponding section of our community who decides to support and fight against us?
IS is just another `fad` which will fade with time.
Until that happens we just need to educate more people to take the right path,
and `remove` those that don't.
By: - 8th September 2015 at 20:33 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think that anti-Semitism has become so ingrained in our Muslim communities, that they do not see that this has become a common path to extremism.
Not sure if this thread has simply become 'post a controversial view' or not, but the way I see it...
Anti-semitism still exists in the western world, and people are all too willing to simplify history down to 'Hitler hated the jews' without ever acknowledging his popularity or the propensity for anti-semitic beliefs over here. I don't think these beliefs necessarily went away, but are simply propagated in other ways. For example, it seems trendy for university students and other radical young minds to protest endlessly against Israel. It seems trendy to consider the Palestinian people as downtrodden underdogs, coming under fire mercilessly from violent and impulsive Israelis;all the while timidly calling for peace. What if all of this is nonsense? The way I see it (again) is that the Palestinians, and other Islamic countries in the Middle East, wish to rid that area of the world of Jews. This activity is latently supported within certain, decidedly non-Islamic, areas of Western media and these crowds of angry students are simply the useful idiots doing the grunt work. I don't see the Israeli-Palestinian conflict as a level playing field at all, and I think that the media in this country is either willfully duped, or cynically playing along, with the PR wing of Hamas. So called Israeli atrocities are reported verbatim by the BBC, without any independent corroboration, and news reports covering Israeli matters are often balanced out with a 'these Palestinians have it rougher' narrative. The way I see it (yet again), if you can turn barren desert into fertile land, with road, energy and water infrastructure, education and medical facilities and an astonishing defense system then you are entitled to that land.
Where I get especially confused is that the pro-Palestinian stance is synonymous with deeply left-wing philosophies, yet I dare say homosexuals and women get a slightly easier time of it on the Israeli side of the wall. I guess one can overlook homophobia and misogyny if it risks your perfect vision of the Palestinian people.
Posts: 3,652
By: - 10th September 2015 at 11:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Isn't it more a point along the lines of the teaching of Radicalism that needs to be addressed ? If these young people are so alienated by western culture then why do they have so many western culture traits ? They drink/Smoke/Have sex with different partners including having gay sex/Wear western clothes and footwear, The latest phones and the paraphernalia that comes with them,Web sites,Media tools,Carry western style bags on their shoulders,Drive western cars,Clubbing ,Movies etc.etc. the list could go on.
It's the teachers of radicalism that need to be curbed within their own religion, if like has happened the moderate Muslims do no nothing then radicalism will spread further and further like a virus. The problem is that nobody has a cure from the western world it needs a host to develop the cure like an antibiotic that will stop the virus in it's tracks, you could bomb these radicals until then end of time and they will still be radical in their thoughts and this is what needs to be altered but I fear that the moderates are bolting the stable door to late as the horse bolted weeks ago......:eek:
Geoff.
Posts: 2,435
By: Seafuryfan - 7th September 2015 at 21:34
...we know that a minority of young Muslims in the West are attracted to join IS because they feel alienated from Western culture. Of the thousands of people from Syria now to be admitted to this country from refugee camps, there will be plenty of unborn and young ones. And there are bound to be some who will, in time, come to feel the same way, especially when they learn they were uprooted from their home country by a war, the origins of which are widely acknolweged to lie with Bush and Blair. They will also have the pull, in some form, of IS (which the BBC ridiculously refers to as 'so called'). IS ain't going away soon. So, in his bid to answer the compassionate call of the nation (triggered by sentimentalism rather than objectivism) Cameron is creating problems for the future, and he and his security advisors know it. What he has to do is try to minimise numbers and ensure that those from the camps have the best bet of being, in some form, vetted by means of ID checks etc.
It could be argued that as we collectively voted Blair in, and parliament approved the Iraq war, that we are now collectively reaping the bitter harvest of an ill-conceived plan to 'democratise' the Middle East. The BBC, hoping tonight for a massive groundswell of sympathy for the refugees, seems to have been taken aback by the degree of caution expressed in polling and interviews about Syrian immigration. Yes, 20,000 people in itself is a small number, but the cultural baggage they bring with them, with rejection of Western values perhaps a real issue amoung some, will be a challenge. Or will the benefits they bring far outweigh the issues I've raised above? Perhaps. No doubt there will be many loving, hardworking and professional people amoung the new arrivals who will contribute much to this country and raise their children to be 'good' according to their tradition. But we've seen how this can count for nothing when radicalisation occurs. It could also be argued that admitting even these modest numbers could be a very, very small way of atonement by the UK for meddling in the Middle East, and ********* it up to such a massive extent. Tony, will you be opening up your properties to do your bit?