By: trekbuster
- 25th February 2016 at 14:29Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The stay in campaign does seem (up until now) to be based on fear. A little light on facts though.
The same is true for the leave campaign.
And I hope that Gove is given the lead part in the Leave campaign
So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law, which is surprising for a Justice secretary. Oh, I forgot he has a 2:1 in English so is not a lawyer after all. However it appears at the moment that none of the usual suspects want to head up a leave campaign, not even Nige as far as I can tell. Which is the official campaign- has it been decided yet?
That statistic is about as reliable as their analysis of British State education.
By: charliehunt
- 25th February 2016 at 14:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The same is true for the leave campaign.
So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law.
True but whereas the future in staying in should be crystal clear and full of facts, leaving is a step into virgin territory so facts are few and far to come by.
At least Gove tells it as it is as opposed to the PR flummery we are getting from Cameron et al. And I wouldn't be so certain to dismiss his remarks on the legal aspects of what has been agreed. He will have taken good legal advice and I set rather more store by that than the blandishments from Mr Tusk.
By: charliehunt
- 25th February 2016 at 16:49Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A government minister wheeled out by Cameron as the report says, has expressed his opinion. A political rebuttal and to be expected. The battle lines have been drawn so we'll see how it plays out. I'll stick by my original comment.
By: trekbuster
- 25th February 2016 at 17:02Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And I mine!:eagerness:
Pob is a vote loser
As I have stated before, the main problem that I see with Gove and that other bastion of truth and light that is IDS, is that they are willing, like Jeremy Hunt, to continue to ignore sound statistical and evidence based information that repudiates their position purely on ideological grounds. If that can do this with things that I have personal experience of and can recognise how the truth is ignored then how can I trust them on matters that I am less well versed in? Such as the Law.
By: charliehunt
- 25th February 2016 at 17:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As you emphatically said - you'll stick with your view. You and I are among the 35odd% who know how we are going to vote. It's the remaining two thirds who need convincing to your camp or mine! Let battle commence.....:eagerness:
By: John Green
- 25th February 2016 at 17:44Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The same is true for the leave campaign.
So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law, which is surprising for a Justice secretary. Oh, I forgot he has a 2:1 in English so is not a lawyer after all. However it appears at the moment that none of the usual suspects want to head up a leave campaign, not even Nige as far as I can tell. Which is the official campaign- has it been decided yet?
We can at least agree on that! GIGO
Your grasp of sarcasm is rather excellent ! That's a bit more.
By: John Green
- 25th February 2016 at 17:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And I mine!:eagerness:
Pob is a vote loser
As I have stated before, the main problem that I see with Gove and that other bastion of truth and light that is IDS, is that they are willing, like Jeremy Hunt, to continue to ignore sound statistical and evidence based information that repudiates their position purely on ideological grounds. If that can do this with things that I have personal experience of and can recognise how the truth is ignored then how can I trust them on matters that I am less well versed in? Such as the Law.
By: charliehunt
- 26th February 2016 at 05:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
LOLs and smileys - all too confusing!!;)
I see that inveterate and lifelong europhile David Owen has decided to Leave. Europhiles for Leave, eh? What he doesn't know about the last 40 years of EU bungling isn't worth knowing.
By: snafu352
- 26th February 2016 at 14:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Leave.
How does Jean Claude Juncker get his position without any sort of public electioneering? no one voted for him outside Brussels. One of the most powerful people in Europe, and he was put on his throne through backroom deals. It all stinks of corruption.
You are completely and utterly wrong. In continental Europe the European Election vote to elect the MEP's was seen very much as a vote to elect the Head of the EU Commission.
There was plenty of very public electioneering as you put it.
That this extensive and very public activity has apparently completely passed you by either means you do not take sufficient interest in these events for your opinion to be judged valid, you are deliberately lying to further your belief or that the British public has been poorly served yet again by the supposed information dissemination channels. Or all three.
Edit: Every European had a vote, whether you choose to use it was your prerogative.
By: snafu352
- 26th February 2016 at 14:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
... man made global warming. .... Global warming might be taking place or, it might not, we have no way of knowing.
Global warming is a product of climate change, which is happening and is probably cyclical.
The science is very clear and certain that human activity is having a dis-proportionate impact on climate change beyond that that could be naturally occurring.
We have ways of knowing and they are at variance with your uninformed, amateur "opinion."
You can set yourself up as King Canute as much as you want but your statement is hogwash.
For this reason alone any other opinion you state should be taken with a very big pinch of salt.
Do you belong to the flat earthers group as well?
By: charliehunt
- 26th February 2016 at 15:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I very much fear that you and your like will be found to be the flat-earthers. The evidence that readings and measurements have been distorted for years is simply overwhelming. And the computer modelling on which the whole precarious edifice has been constructed has been found severely wanting. And a growing number of climate scientists have and still are distancing themselves for the joke that is the IPCC and its flawed reports.
The climate has been changing over millenia, long before man's existence., and the earth has warmed and cooled regardless. And it will continue so to do - as we head for a new ice-age. Look to the sun and its complex influences for a key component in thew cycles.
By: Bruce
- 27th February 2016 at 23:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Firstly, nonsense. Global warning is real and is happening. Even if it wasn't there is a massive argument to stop treating the planet as if it was an infinite resource.
Now, serious question to those who wish to leave the EU.
What do you think will change if the vote goes in your favour? We have discussed the number of laws that originate in Europe, and much more. So, if we 'take back' this sovereignty you value so highly, what do you think will happen?
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 25th February 2016 at 14:29 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The same is true for the leave campaign.
So do I as he'll frighten the waverers into the stay camp. His comments yesterday show he has some lack of understanding of the law, which is surprising for a Justice secretary. Oh, I forgot he has a 2:1 in English so is not a lawyer after all. However it appears at the moment that none of the usual suspects want to head up a leave campaign, not even Nige as far as I can tell. Which is the official campaign- has it been decided yet?
We can at least agree on that! GIGO
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 25th February 2016 at 14:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
True but whereas the future in staying in should be crystal clear and full of facts, leaving is a step into virgin territory so facts are few and far to come by.
At least Gove tells it as it is as opposed to the PR flummery we are getting from Cameron et al. And I wouldn't be so certain to dismiss his remarks on the legal aspects of what has been agreed. He will have taken good legal advice and I set rather more store by that than the blandishments from Mr Tusk.
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 25th February 2016 at 16:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
OK, how about the Attorney General's opinion?
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/governments-top-lawyer-slaps-down-gove-for-saying-eu-deal-could-be-overturned-a3187941.html
Regarding the OECD, If one is sure their research is alway correct, then of course one would have to endorse their opinions on migration:
http://www.oecd.org/migration/OECD%20Migration%20Policy%20Debates%20Numero%202.pdf
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 25th February 2016 at 16:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A government minister wheeled out by Cameron as the report says, has expressed his opinion. A political rebuttal and to be expected. The battle lines have been drawn so we'll see how it plays out. I'll stick by my original comment.
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 25th February 2016 at 17:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And I mine!:eagerness:
Pob is a vote loser
As I have stated before, the main problem that I see with Gove and that other bastion of truth and light that is IDS, is that they are willing, like Jeremy Hunt, to continue to ignore sound statistical and evidence based information that repudiates their position purely on ideological grounds. If that can do this with things that I have personal experience of and can recognise how the truth is ignored then how can I trust them on matters that I am less well versed in? Such as the Law.
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 25th February 2016 at 17:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As you emphatically said - you'll stick with your view. You and I are among the 35odd% who know how we are going to vote. It's the remaining two thirds who need convincing to your camp or mine! Let battle commence.....:eagerness:
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 25th February 2016 at 17:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Your grasp of sarcasm is rather excellent ! That's a bit more.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 25th February 2016 at 17:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't be modest and confine yourself to the Law !
Posts: 1,751
By: Bruggen 130 - 25th February 2016 at 18:02 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Charlie I should think the TV audience of 4.7bn for Premier League games shown in 212 countries care quite a bit. LOL
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 25th February 2016 at 19:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Oh I have no doubt you are right - my tongue was firmly planted in the cheek, hence the smiley!!
Not that I believe our departure from the EU would make a scrap of difference to the broadcast potential of football.
Posts: 1,751
By: Bruggen 130 - 25th February 2016 at 20:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I new that hence my LOL
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 26th February 2016 at 05:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
LOLs and smileys - all too confusing!!;)
I see that inveterate and lifelong europhile David Owen has decided to Leave. Europhiles for Leave, eh? What he doesn't know about the last 40 years of EU bungling isn't worth knowing.
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 26th February 2016 at 14:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Nevertheless, I'm at a loss to understand why the news agencies are covering the views of has beens like Owen and Michael Howard.
Posts: 1,071
By: MrBlueSky - 26th February 2016 at 14:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Why the EU was formed... :highly_amused:
1:24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg2gEvtr480
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 26th February 2016 at 14:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Bruce, the description, "Big Beasts" and the alleged influence that derives from that, used to be a media favourite !
Posts: 2,248
By: snafu352 - 26th February 2016 at 14:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You are completely and utterly wrong. In continental Europe the European Election vote to elect the MEP's was seen very much as a vote to elect the Head of the EU Commission.
There was plenty of very public electioneering as you put it.
That this extensive and very public activity has apparently completely passed you by either means you do not take sufficient interest in these events for your opinion to be judged valid, you are deliberately lying to further your belief or that the British public has been poorly served yet again by the supposed information dissemination channels. Or all three.
Edit: Every European had a vote, whether you choose to use it was your prerogative.
Posts: 2,248
By: snafu352 - 26th February 2016 at 14:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Global warming is a product of climate change, which is happening and is probably cyclical.
The science is very clear and certain that human activity is having a dis-proportionate impact on climate change beyond that that could be naturally occurring.
We have ways of knowing and they are at variance with your uninformed, amateur "opinion."
You can set yourself up as King Canute as much as you want but your statement is hogwash.
For this reason alone any other opinion you state should be taken with a very big pinch of salt.
Do you belong to the flat earthers group as well?
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 26th February 2016 at 15:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I very much fear that you and your like will be found to be the flat-earthers. The evidence that readings and measurements have been distorted for years is simply overwhelming. And the computer modelling on which the whole precarious edifice has been constructed has been found severely wanting. And a growing number of climate scientists have and still are distancing themselves for the joke that is the IPCC and its flawed reports.
The climate has been changing over millenia, long before man's existence., and the earth has warmed and cooled regardless. And it will continue so to do - as we head for a new ice-age. Look to the sun and its complex influences for a key component in thew cycles.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 26th February 2016 at 15:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Re 38
#39 is much as I would have it. The difference between it and your ill mannered rant is the degree of polite restraint shown.
Snafu352
I've always considered your contributions to be indicative of a 'work in progress'. You need more practice.
Posts: 8,464
By: Bruce - 27th February 2016 at 23:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Firstly, nonsense. Global warning is real and is happening. Even if it wasn't there is a massive argument to stop treating the planet as if it was an infinite resource.
Now, serious question to those who wish to leave the EU.
What do you think will change if the vote goes in your favour? We have discussed the number of laws that originate in Europe, and much more. So, if we 'take back' this sovereignty you value so highly, what do you think will happen?