By: Alpha Bravo
- 19th October 2016 at 23:01Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In my view, the J-20 appears to be far more agile in the air than its design would otherwise suggest, at least based on the videos so far available, and especially considering the fact that it lacks TVC.
By: Marcellogo
- 20th October 2016 at 01:19Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In my view, the J-20 appears to be far more agile in the air than its design would otherwise suggest, at least based on the videos so far available, and especially considering the fact that it lacks TVC.
Although a little smaller they are still delta wings + canard+ Lerx, so I would expect a maneouvreability at least comparable to a JF-17 if not even a J-10, and not like the Mig-31, even without TVC.
By: JSR
- 20th October 2016 at 01:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In my view, the J-20 appears to be far more agile in the air than its design would otherwise suggest, at least based on the videos so far available, and especially considering the fact that it lacks TVC.
Those video seem accelerated to give perception of agility.
New
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB
- 20th October 2016 at 03:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those video seem accelerated to give perception of agility.
If it had some indigenous engine that we knew nothing about then I wouldn't be skeptical. But damn does it rocket up
New
Posts: 269
By: Byoin
- 20th October 2016 at 03:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Although a little smaller they are still delta wings + canard+ Lerx, so I would expect a maneouvreability at least comparable to a JF-17 if not even a J-10, and not like the Mig-31, even without TVC.
tvc is a bandaid solution. that's why rafale, eurofighter, gripen, f-35, j-20, jf-17, j-10 don't need it.
New
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory
- 20th October 2016 at 04:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In my view, the J-20 appears to be far more agile in the air than its design would otherwise suggest, at least based on the videos so far available, and especially considering the fact that it lacks TVC.
can you link where J-20 show off agility ?
New
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB
- 20th October 2016 at 04:23Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
tvc is a bandaid solution. that's why rafale, eurofighter, gripen, f-35, j-20, jf-17, j-10 don't need it.
TVC simply enhances a fighter jet's maneuverability. The jets you mentioned all have different reasons why they don't have it. And it has nothing to do with solutions to other problems.
I think it is telling that the 2 countries with the most experience and expertise in the business both have TVC variants on their flagship jets. And Russia went the extra mile and went 3D.
New
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB
- 20th October 2016 at 04:24Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
can you link where J-20 show off agility ?
i think he's talking about this latest video. Watch the jet go off in the distance and then just rocket up into the heavens and does a nifty move
New
Posts: 269
By: Byoin
- 20th October 2016 at 04:50Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
TVC simply enhances a fighter jet's maneuverability. The jets you mentioned all have different reasons why they don't have it. And it has nothing to do with solutions to other problems.
I think it is telling that the 2 countries with the most experience and expertise in the business both have TVC variants on their flagship jets. And Russia went the extra mile and went 3D.
no. the flag ship jet of the us is the f-35. it is their most expensive and important program. they dropped the tvc. the f-22 is a 30 year old design.
so we have 5 different leading aviation preferring NOT to use tvc. it had its day, and now it is gone.
Russia is sticking to it because it is part of their philosophy. they know they are at a strong disadvantage to western jets in radar range and missile reliability and range, so they are hoping to win the close in fight.
if the su-35 rumor is true, then expect to see China make a copy of its engine and improve upon it. no big deal.
By: JSR
- 20th October 2016 at 05:28Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
design wise F-22 and F-35 not have more than 10 year difference. its is the old avionics system design of F-22 that make it expensive.
maker of Rafale/Gripen/Eurofighter are not by any stretch leading aviation countries. just look at Airbus civil how they are managing it from titanium to designing various parts.
New
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB
- 20th October 2016 at 06:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no. the flag ship jet of the us is the f-35. it is their most expensive and important program. they dropped the tvc. the f-22 is a 30 year old design.
so we have 5 different leading aviation preferring NOT to use tvc. it had its day, and now it is gone.
Russia is sticking to it because it is part of their philosophy. they know they are at a strong disadvantage to western jets in radar range and missile reliability and range, so they are hoping to win the close in fight.
if the su-35 rumor is true, then expect to see China make a copy of its engine and improve upon it. no big deal.
The flagship jet is not the F 35. It is the Raptor.
There was no way to have VTOL and TVC on the F 35. So it doesn't have it.
The leaders in the industry are the US and Russia.
Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere - 19th October 2016 at 15:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmm, never.. It's logical to design weapon bays and then never use them.. makes sense..
Posts: 234
By: SolarWarden - 19th October 2016 at 17:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It was rhetorical question. But I'm not surprised you're the only one that didn't know that.
By: Anonymous - 19th October 2016 at 20:17 Permalink - Edited 22nd October 2019 at 22:31
Here:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]249114[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]249115[/ATTACH]
By: Anonymous - 19th October 2016 at 21:01 Permalink - Edited 22nd October 2019 at 22:31
Say what?
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/6b/6f/2b/6b6f2bcd6af0a38b96f47a4a6efb2101.jpg
http://media.defense.gov/2005/May/13/2000582877/-1/-1/0/050512-F-2295B-280.JPG
Posts: 269
By: Byoin - 19th October 2016 at 21:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
incorrect, they are on the bottom, not top
Posts: 8,850
By: MSphere - 19th October 2016 at 22:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Mine was a rhetorical answer. But I'm not surprised you're the only one that didn't know that.
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 19th October 2016 at 22:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
what are you showing me here ? Those spots are more from just heat dissipation no ?
Posts: 498
By: Alpha Bravo - 19th October 2016 at 23:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In my view, the J-20 appears to be far more agile in the air than its design would otherwise suggest, at least based on the videos so far available, and especially considering the fact that it lacks TVC.
Posts: 80
By: foxmulder_ms - 20th October 2016 at 00:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Such a fountain of knowledge!
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 20th October 2016 at 00:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Stops by for a cheap shot. Too cowardly to put his own alleged knowledge up for scrutiny.
Posts: 1,765
By: Marcellogo - 20th October 2016 at 01:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Although a little smaller they are still delta wings + canard+ Lerx, so I would expect a maneouvreability at least comparable to a JF-17 if not even a J-10, and not like the Mig-31, even without TVC.Posts: 4,731
By: JSR - 20th October 2016 at 01:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Those video seem accelerated to give perception of agility.
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 20th October 2016 at 03:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If it had some indigenous engine that we knew nothing about then I wouldn't be skeptical. But damn does it rocket up
Posts: 269
By: Byoin - 20th October 2016 at 03:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
tvc is a bandaid solution. that's why rafale, eurofighter, gripen, f-35, j-20, jf-17, j-10 don't need it.
Posts: 6,983
By: obligatory - 20th October 2016 at 04:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
can you link where J-20 show off agility ?
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 20th October 2016 at 04:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
TVC simply enhances a fighter jet's maneuverability. The jets you mentioned all have different reasons why they don't have it. And it has nothing to do with solutions to other problems.
I think it is telling that the 2 countries with the most experience and expertise in the business both have TVC variants on their flagship jets. And Russia went the extra mile and went 3D.
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 20th October 2016 at 04:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
i think he's talking about this latest video. Watch the jet go off in the distance and then just rocket up into the heavens and does a nifty move
Posts: 269
By: Byoin - 20th October 2016 at 04:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
no. the flag ship jet of the us is the f-35. it is their most expensive and important program. they dropped the tvc. the f-22 is a 30 year old design.
so we have 5 different leading aviation preferring NOT to use tvc. it had its day, and now it is gone.
Russia is sticking to it because it is part of their philosophy. they know they are at a strong disadvantage to western jets in radar range and missile reliability and range, so they are hoping to win the close in fight.
if the su-35 rumor is true, then expect to see China make a copy of its engine and improve upon it. no big deal.
Posts: 4,731
By: JSR - 20th October 2016 at 05:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
design wise F-22 and F-35 not have more than 10 year difference. its is the old avionics system design of F-22 that make it expensive.
maker of Rafale/Gripen/Eurofighter are not by any stretch leading aviation countries. just look at Airbus civil how they are managing it from titanium to designing various parts.
Posts: 1,168
By: KGB - 20th October 2016 at 06:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The flagship jet is not the F 35. It is the Raptor.
There was no way to have VTOL and TVC on the F 35. So it doesn't have it.
The leaders in the industry are the US and Russia.