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Member for

13 years

Posts: 6,535

Nevertheless, you must agree that evidenced by the far from pretty scenes shown on TV there are - certainly to my eye - significant numbers of quite volatile Catalans out on the streets screaming for something. For what are they screaming ? Most of the posters shown, mention independence.

AK, matters of this kind when supported by significant numbers quickly gain momentum. All the 'legalities' in the world amount to nothing. Almost anything can become 'legal' if that 'anything' has enough tangible support.

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 963

Thing is the TV/media are showing what they want to show, my week has taken me to Barcelona and Madrid, I'm currently in Madrid, and it's quite different on the ground, to my eye, and from what I hear talking to my Spanish colleagues.

What you describe becomes anarchy if not checked by a legal framework and law and order. If there is a legitimate majority then this vote should be pushed for in a controlled and legal manner. However there isn't and the general feeling is that this is a way to having talks/negotiations with the provision of more autonomy for the region.

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

Time will tell. I wouldn't think that your Spanish colleagues would evince much support for what they will incorrectly see as the likely break up of their country, depending on what exactly is meant by and how far reaching the push for autonomy is.

The Catalans will still be attached to the Iberian peninsular !

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 963

It's interesting JG, there's a mix of pro Spanish Madrid based and Barcelona based people, and pro Cataluña Barcelona based people, so mixed views in the main. The overriding feeling I'm hearing from all is that the likely outcome is a negotiation and agreement for more autonomy with out an actual exit from Spain.

As you rightly say, time will tell.

Member for

15 years 10 months

Posts: 686

There is clearly a movement for Catalan independence, how popular or widespread this is I have no idea, but I do feel that the Spanish government handled the whole affair badly indeed, surely speaking to the people is the right way, if that means going for a referendum so be it, remember we still have the question of Scottish independence festering, however the people of Scotland were given the opportunity to vote and turned it down, who knows what a democratic vote would produce in Spain, sending in riot squads and militia will probably produce more clamour for independence than a rational campaign followed by a free vote.

The EU will obviously not be in favour, just as they weren't in favour of possible Scottish independence, but the EU did not send in riot squads.

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

No, they didn't but, I wouldn't mind betting that, given the degree of malevolence recently displayed towards GB, they'd quite like to have that particular resource.

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15 years 10 months

Posts: 686

Not sure if it's malevolence or sarcastic laughter, with Boris sticking his boots in at frequent intervals.

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 963

Good Lord that Daily Mail and that Hopkins witch are getting even worse. Anybody who claims to read that toilet paper certainly shows just what they are.

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

London has, for many years, had the appearance of a third world city. Many of the people who live and work there are immigrants who have imported their way of life.

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18 years 11 months

Posts: 963

Not sure how that in any way links to my post but yes, the Shard, Docklands, Riverside are just like any third world city.....

As for being full of immigrants. Take a look at the Tower of London (Norman), Roman ruins, yes it’s been full of immigrants for a very long time. B*stards giving us straight roads and central heating etc etc....

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

"Not sure how it links to your post...."

I thought that my comment was a fairly natural follow up. Architectural follies; worthy evidence of first world status ? Maybe, maybe.

Perhaps a much more certain indicator is the presence of rubbish, bagged and unbagged swirling uncollected around our nice straight highways - y'know the ones you mentioned and - piled high - choking the pavements.

Perhaps a better estimator of how far we are removed from the social practices of our forebears is the amount of detritus and graffiti and the picture of utter dereliction presented by some areas in our cities. Here, I'm thinking outskirts of Birmingham.

Perhaps AK the connection with your post is more than you think. For quite some time, I've planned to take my two granddaughters to visit the Bomber Command Memorial in Green Park but, for unaccountable reasons have held back.

I think that your 'beef' is with Katie Hopkins. How dare she present a counter opinion ? If such is the case, the problem for you is that her opinions are very often those held by millions.

How uncomfortable is that ?

Member for

18 years 11 months

Posts: 963

Not uncomfortable at all, my point being about her and the Daily Mail jumping to conclusions on the incident in question which proved very wide of the mark, trashing London and blaming terrorists and generally stirring up emotions. For one who prides himself on praising quality news and media and vilifies those who (in your view) fall short of that mark (fake news I think you'd call it?) I thought you'd understand and indeed support what I was highlighting.

Birmingham, too far North for me to comment on, I'm led to believe that anything North of Watford Gap is grim and cold.

On a serious note you really shouldn't listen to Katie and her cronies re. London, especially if planning to visit the beautiful and poignant Bomber Command memorial. I took my daughter there over the summer, during a day she attended some lectures at the Royal Institution, and we enjoyed our time in such a vibrant city and encountered no issues at all.

Member for

13 years

Posts: 6,535

Not for the first time, I think that you have some rather weird and quite false ideas:

I do not 'pride myself' on anything - apart, that is, from admiring the shine on my shoes. I do not praise 'quality news and media'. I certainly don't recognise that trait ! I like news that levers me into writing what I hope is an expressive letter or three to Govt. ministers.

I like news that rouses me from my usual torpor and propels me into what I hope is a readable rant on these pages. Listen to Katie to shape my actions ? No and again no. Not that I disagree with her sentiments. Thankfully, like most here, I'm able to make my own judgments.

It is undeniable that portions of London have the appearance of a third world habitat. It is equally undeniable that the city has, for reasons that we all know and have witnessed, taken on a sinister projection of where deeply unpleasant incidents that pose a threat to life and limb can and do occur. Would I myself visit ? Yes, no doubt. Would I take someone for whose safety I bore responsibility ? No.

All of this because chicken livered politicians with the brain capacity of an amoeba, have over the last four decades or so seen fit to open the borders of this country to any religious and racial misfits who would do the peaceable inhabitants as much harm as they could comfortably manage.

Vibrant city AK ? I am sorry that is tosh. The only vibrancy I detect is that when a vehicle with murderous intent ploughs into innocent bystanders or, a volley of small arms fire echoes around the canyons of your 'vibrant' city.

I'm pleased that you and your daughter enjoyed a happy day, free from incident in London. My advice is; don't make a habit of it.

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24 years 3 months

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I spent much of my youth being driven around the outskirts of Birmingham. If it is as you describe it today, then it hasn't changed in 40 odd years.

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17 years 6 months

Posts: 8,983

I would rather have a bunch of immigrants living next door than Katie bloody Hopkins.... Loathsome creature.

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

Goldring(er)

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13 years

Posts: 6,535

Has the Blessed Theresa of the May shot herself in the foot or is it terminal ? She was interviewed on LBC on Tuesday. She was asked whether she would now vote Leave rather than the Remain of her original vote. She declined to give an answer.

How can she lead the exit negotiations when, apparently, her commitment is to the opposite camp ?

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12 years 8 months

Posts: 851

She doesn't have to believe in it to pursue it, she is a politician after all.
and last time I looked she wasn't leading the negotiations personally.

time to untwist your knickers John

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15 years 10 months

Posts: 686

John

Not a fan of May by any stretch, but who would you have leading our government?