By: St. John
- 8th January 2019 at 16:47Permalink- Edited 8th January 2019 at 16:48
Indeed, I thought that May would do a good job but she has adopted a terrible negotiating strategy throughout and failed to plan early for no deal, which incidentally would have been part of a proper negotiating strategy. It's either like she's never negotiated anything before, or she's deliberately tried to foil Brexit.
By: John Green
- 8th January 2019 at 17:01Permalink
The suspicion must be that the level of procrastination and negotiating incompetence indicates the latter. As Prime Minister she looks to have been promoted above her paygrade.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 8th January 2019 at 18:03Permalink- Edited 8th January 2019 at 18:05
From day 1 she immediately conceded the best cards by agreeing to a a Brexit bill, that should have been withheld until a good deal had been secured. And if the EU refused to negotiate further, fine, accelerate no deal planning and even cut current funding until they came to the table. The EU's stubbornness and arrogance should have been countered at every stage by making their pockets emptier. Instead she assumed that the EU would respond to 'good will' gestures, whereas they actually saw them as a sign of extreme weakness and asked for more.
Well Mr. Grieve and the speaker have attempted to sabotage the process. I would just come back in 3 days and say, "there is no alternative, what are you going to do about it?"
If only there really were some form of coherent process or plan! there seems to have been a lack of anything the past 2.5 years! even a sketch on a fag paclet would be better than what we have right now.......
It's all turning into an even bigger pile of cr@p........
By: St. John
- 10th January 2019 at 12:00Permalink
No deal is very simple and is the only remaining alternative. What's needed is a general election on the issue of Brexit alone. No parties, no other issues, just no deal or remain. The vote will be counted by constituency. The representatives for each of the 650 constituencies will then have to support their constituencies wishes in parliament.
By: John Green
- 10th January 2019 at 17:19Permalink
SJ
I do agree with your opening sentence but, problems follow on from that. I write as a not uncritical life long Tory supporter - one of millions. That support cannot now be taken for granted. On the single issue of Brexit and with Mrs. May as the architect, enough incompetence and mistrust has been created as to make majority electoral support highly unlikely.
In a General Election, Mrs. May requires a convincing majority; given the Brexit shambles of the last two years, I do not believe that will happen, at least, not with her at the helm. I've written before that she is a busted flush and should resign. Provided the new leader and PM is a committed Leaver, this might be all that is needed to provide the removal of the Withdrawal Agreement and a fresh impetus for a 'no deal' supported by the blessed intransigence of the DUP.
In a forum occasionally infamous for its chicanery, the last 48 hours in the House of Commons has seen partisan activity by an alleged apolitical Speaker find a new low. The consequence of his manoeuvring is a further shattering of confidence and a reinforcement of distrust. In the matter of Brexit - nothing else - just Brexit, I wonder whether, in your scenario, just how many MPs would truly and accurately represent the wishes of their constituencies or would they furtively and with dissimulation indulge their personal political convictions regardless.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 10th January 2019 at 19:20Permalink
That's why I wouldn't even bring the party politics into it. I would have the candidates for each constituency stand on the issue of no deal or remain and then let the people vote in a parliament to enact whichever wins.
By: Agent K
- 11th January 2019 at 08:09Permalink- Edited 11th January 2019 at 08:09
I've written before that she is a busted flush and should resign"
Oh my, how she's fallen from the highs of your previously referenced St. Theresa...
But really, change your views and elect for another option, surely that's the antithesis of the brexiteer "democracy" where you're not allowed to change your views based on the latest information available!
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 11th January 2019 at 09:57Permalink
We never got a choice as to whether or not to enter these arrangements in the first place, so one vote to leave them should be enough.
That said, May should leave, David Davis should take over, and Corbyn should have already been dismissed when his Labour MPs fell below the required support threshold. He has no more of a plan for Brexit than May, he has no plan at all in fact. He can't be pro-remain because he knows that the majority of Labour constituencies and powerful unions are against it, so he's just wading in a complete policy vacuum screaming for an election and hoping to win based purely on May's unpopularity.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 11th January 2019 at 11:35Permalink- Edited 11th January 2019 at 11:36
By: John Green
- 11th January 2019 at 15:29Permalink
You've obviously just been to Damascus.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 11th January 2019 at 17:04Permalink- Edited 11th January 2019 at 17:05
An interesting aside is that Alex Salmond (ex-leader of the SNP) is now hosting a talk show on RT and has recently sued the Scottish taxpayer, yet he was against Brexit. So, which side are the Russian trolls on again?
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 8th January 2019 at 16:47 Permalink - Edited 8th January 2019 at 16:48
Indeed, I thought that May would do a good job but she has adopted a terrible negotiating strategy throughout and failed to plan early for no deal, which incidentally would have been part of a proper negotiating strategy. It's either like she's never negotiated anything before, or she's deliberately tried to foil Brexit.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 8th January 2019 at 17:01 Permalink
The suspicion must be that the level of procrastination and negotiating incompetence indicates the latter. As Prime Minister she looks to have been promoted above her paygrade.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 8th January 2019 at 18:03 Permalink - Edited 8th January 2019 at 18:05
From day 1 she immediately conceded the best cards by agreeing to a a Brexit bill, that should have been withheld until a good deal had been secured. And if the EU refused to negotiate further, fine, accelerate no deal planning and even cut current funding until they came to the table. The EU's stubbornness and arrogance should have been countered at every stage by making their pockets emptier. Instead she assumed that the EU would respond to 'good will' gestures, whereas they actually saw them as a sign of extreme weakness and asked for more.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 8th January 2019 at 19:08 Permalink
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 8th January 2019 at 19:47 Permalink
A state of reality JG, unpleasant though it is these days.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 9th January 2019 at 18:09 Permalink
Well Mr. Grieve and the speaker have attempted to sabotage the process. I would just come back in 3 days and say, "there is no alternative, what are you going to do about it?"
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 10th January 2019 at 11:47 Permalink
If only there really were some form of coherent process or plan! there seems to have been a lack of anything the past 2.5 years! even a sketch on a fag paclet would be better than what we have right now.......
It's all turning into an even bigger pile of cr@p........
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 10th January 2019 at 12:00 Permalink
No deal is very simple and is the only remaining alternative. What's needed is a general election on the issue of Brexit alone. No parties, no other issues, just no deal or remain. The vote will be counted by constituency. The representatives for each of the 650 constituencies will then have to support their constituencies wishes in parliament.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 10th January 2019 at 17:19 Permalink
SJ
I do agree with your opening sentence but, problems follow on from that. I write as a not uncritical life long Tory supporter - one of millions. That support cannot now be taken for granted. On the single issue of Brexit and with Mrs. May as the architect, enough incompetence and mistrust has been created as to make majority electoral support highly unlikely.
In a General Election, Mrs. May requires a convincing majority; given the Brexit shambles of the last two years, I do not believe that will happen, at least, not with her at the helm. I've written before that she is a busted flush and should resign. Provided the new leader and PM is a committed Leaver, this might be all that is needed to provide the removal of the Withdrawal Agreement and a fresh impetus for a 'no deal' supported by the blessed intransigence of the DUP.
In a forum occasionally infamous for its chicanery, the last 48 hours in the House of Commons has seen partisan activity by an alleged apolitical Speaker find a new low. The consequence of his manoeuvring is a further shattering of confidence and a reinforcement of distrust. In the matter of Brexit - nothing else - just Brexit, I wonder whether, in your scenario, just how many MPs would truly and accurately represent the wishes of their constituencies or would they furtively and with dissimulation indulge their personal political convictions regardless.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 10th January 2019 at 19:20 Permalink
That's why I wouldn't even bring the party politics into it. I would have the candidates for each constituency stand on the issue of no deal or remain and then let the people vote in a parliament to enact whichever wins.
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 11th January 2019 at 08:09 Permalink - Edited 11th January 2019 at 08:09
I've written before that she is a busted flush and should resign"
Oh my, how she's fallen from the highs of your previously referenced St. Theresa...
But really, change your views and elect for another option, surely that's the antithesis of the brexiteer "democracy" where you're not allowed to change your views based on the latest information available!
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 11th January 2019 at 09:57 Permalink
We never got a choice as to whether or not to enter these arrangements in the first place, so one vote to leave them should be enough.
That said, May should leave, David Davis should take over, and Corbyn should have already been dismissed when his Labour MPs fell below the required support threshold. He has no more of a plan for Brexit than May, he has no plan at all in fact. He can't be pro-remain because he knows that the majority of Labour constituencies and powerful unions are against it, so he's just wading in a complete policy vacuum screaming for an election and hoping to win based purely on May's unpopularity.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 11th January 2019 at 11:35 Permalink - Edited 11th January 2019 at 11:36
Petition to leave with no deal - 322,000 and counting.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963
Petition to rescind article 50 - 203,000.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/223729
Petition to grant people a second referendum - 129,000.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/232984
Posts: 1,547
By: Bradburger - 11th January 2019 at 13:28 Permalink
Cheers
Paul
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 11th January 2019 at 14:31 Permalink
Bl00dy foreigners coming over here telling us what to do............
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 11th January 2019 at 15:29 Permalink
You've obviously just been to Damascus.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 11th January 2019 at 17:04 Permalink - Edited 11th January 2019 at 17:05
An interesting aside is that Alex Salmond (ex-leader of the SNP) is now hosting a talk show on RT and has recently sued the Scottish taxpayer, yet he was against Brexit. So, which side are the Russian trolls on again?
Posts: 963
By: Agent K - 11th January 2019 at 20:24 Permalink
Overwhelming evidence..... case closed!
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 16th January 2019 at 10:10 Permalink
432-202 against the deal. I guess most people agree that even chaos is better than a well organised disaster.
Posts: 1,071
By: MrBlueSky - 19th January 2019 at 19:10 Permalink
This is a prime example of why our overlords cannot be trusted.
This first link is from 2010, the second is from 2015...