BREXIT - Merged Thread.

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Member for

24 years 4 months

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"This is not a Brexit related issue for us" - Ian Howells of Honda

Seems the remoaners are still clutching at straws, despite what Mr Howells has said.

Cheers

Paul

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6 years

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As a British Citizen and I live in Spain,I don't care if the UK leaves the EU,so long as my pension is not affected.

Member for

6 years 4 months

Posts: 550

As long as you're not an EU employee it shouldn't be.

Member for

6 years

Posts: 5

As long as you're not an EU employee it shouldn't be.

Hello St.John, I am a pensioner receiving two pensions,one from the UK and the other from Spain.

Member for

6 years 4 months

Posts: 550

Hello St.John, I am a pensioner receiving two pensions,one from the UK and the other from Spain.


You should be okay then, private pensions should not be affected. It only affects EU employee pensions because the EU opted not to have a pension pot and run it like a proper pension scheme, so pensions are paid by whoever is in the EU at any given time through annual contributions. This was so when Britain joined, even though the pensioners then had not been employed whilst Britain was a member, Britain's annual contribution was still used to pay them, so the same is true in reverse now.

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6 years 4 months

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Well I don't remember seeing anything about the 2016 version of the EU on a bus in 1975, a) because I wasn't alive, and b) because it wasn't.

Member for

5 years 7 months

Posts: 126

Apparently the French were cross because we didn't ask Eurotunnel (rail transport) if they were likely to bid for the shipping. They had such a service but it was closed down a couple of years ago. I wonder who else will now demand damages? Aeroflot? One of the companies the government contacted withdrew because the Eire government withdrew support. Curiouser and curioser! One fact that was barely mentioned in all this noise was Eurotunnel are going to make some upgrades at their expense. How much it will cost them has not been disclosed. Aren't politics fun? Not.

Member for

24 years 4 months

Posts: 16,832

Don't recall seeing that on the side of a bus?

The government has agreed £104m of Brexit consultancy and other contracts since the referendum

So are you suggesting the government (which you recall didn't want Brexit) shouldn't actually make any preparations for it? That's an odd train of thought.

Moggy

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19 years

Posts: 963

Firstly what are they preparing for? It’s not like we know what it will look like yet?!

My point being this lie of £350M savings etc etc failed to point out to the intellectually challenged the reality of it.

Member for

24 years 4 months

Posts: 1,538

Comedian Henning Wehn's assessment of Brexit and his question to the audience on Thursday's Question Time: -

Spot on I'd say.

Cheers

Paul

Member for

6 years 4 months

Posts: 550

Firstly what are they preparing for? It’s not like we know what it will look like yet?!

My point being this lie of £350M savings etc etc failed to point out to the intellectually challenged the reality of it.


Show me the sign that said there'd be £350m of savings. The sign said that we send £350m per year to the EU. It's a gross figure but it's a fact.

Member for

12 years 10 months

Posts: 851

I am afraid St.John it is not a fact we SEND 350m GROSS. This is a contradiction in terms. We have never sent that much because the rebate was taken off so NET the UK's contribution was closer to £240 million. So for Boris or anyone to say that we would take back control of £350m , or make £350m saving is just simply untrue.
https://fullfact.org/europe/350-mill...hority-misuse/
the head of the UK statistics authority sent Boris a letter to that effect
https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....-Secretary.pdf

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6 years 4 months

Posts: 550

I am afraid St.John it is not a fact we SEND 350m GROSS. This is a contradiction in terms. We have never sent that much because the rebate was taken off so NET the UK's contribution was closer to £240 million. So for Boris or anyone to say that we would take back control of £350m , or make £350m saving is just simply untrue.
https://fullfact.org/europe/350-mill...hority-misuse/
the head of the UK statistics authority sent Boris a letter to that effect
https://www.statisticsauthority.gov....-Secretary.pdf

That's semantics though. The gross figure is still £350m, the rebate is taken out of that. But even the rebate plus public sector receipts still amounts to less than what France receives in public sector receipts alone. So I still don't see that it's misleading as a gross figure I'm afraid.

The debate your making here is along the lines of someone saying they get paid £40k per year because their annual salary is £40,000, but in reality income tax and NI is taken out of that before they ever receive it, so is it a lie to say they get paid £40k per year? I don't think most people would see that as a lie, since tax and NI is a given, as is the rebate and public sector receipts. And bear in mind that that £350m figure doesn't include remittances, overseas child benefit payments, subsidisation of students at UK universities, EU prisoners in UK jails and others costs like burdening of infrastructure and cost of regulations to business.

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Posts: 851


That's semantics though. The gross figure is still £350m, the rebate is taken out of that. But even the rebate plus public sector receipts still amounts to less than what France receives in public sector receipts alone. So I still don't see that it's misleading as a gross figure I'm afraid.

The debate your making here is along the lines of someone saying they get paid £40k per year because their annual salary is £40,000, but in reality income tax and NI is taken out of that before they ever receive it, so is it a lie to say they get paid £40k per year? I don't think most people would see that as a lie, since tax and NI is a given, as is the rebate and public sector receipts. And bear in mind that that £350m figure doesn't include remittances, overseas child benefit payments, subsidisation of students at UK universities, EU prisoners in UK jails and others costs like burdening of infrastructure and cost of regulations to business.

No, sorry but you are muddle headed over this, as are most anti-EU people over this figure which has been entirely discredited. The real problem is the word SEND that you used and was on the side of the bus.
Your £40k salary analogy is ar@se about T@t. A much better analogy is the one in the lnk set out above, if you had read it you might have understood.
the cost to the UK and the rebate is actually more closely analogous to going into a car dealer and buying a car in a showroom. The list price is £35000, but you negotiate a £9000 discount. You then owe £26000 and pay it. You don't send them £35000 and they then give you back the £9000.You never contracted to send the car company £35000 so at no point have you actually owed £35000, nor could you say by NOT buying the car that you have SAVED £35000 or have taken back control of your £35000.
nobody assumes a cars list price is the price actually paid do they?

Member for

6 years 4 months

Posts: 550

No, sorry but you are muddle headed over this, as are most anti-EU people over this figure which has been entirely discredited. The real problem is the word SEND that you used and was on the side of the bus.
Your £40k salary analogy is ar@se about T@t. A much better analogy is the one in the lnk set out above, if you had read it you might have understood.
the cost to the UK and the rebate is actually more closely analogous to going into a car dealer and buying a car in a showroom. The list price is £35000, but you negotiate a £9000 discount. You then owe £26000 and pay it. You don't send them £35000 and they then give you back the £9000.You never contracted to send the car company £35000 so at no point have you actually owed £35000, nor could you say by NOT buying the car that you have SAVED £35000 or have taken back control of your £35000.
nobody assumes a cars list price is the price actually paid do they?


The £40k salary analogy is exactly right. A person will say they get paid £40k per year, however they only actually physically get paid maybe £28k into their bank account. But it's still not a lie because everyone with half a brain cell understands that income tax and NI get deducted prior to receipt in your bank. I mean do civil servants not pay any tax? The same is true for this £350m, except income tax and NI are replaced by rebate and public sector receipts. That the pro-EU brigade is seizing on an administrative simplification to suggest it's a some kind of sinister lie is ridiculous.

I mean, let's be honest here, did anyone in this thread not understand that the £350m was pre-rebate and public sector receipts? As the German comedian says in Bradburger's post, anyone who didn't understand that is simply stupid.

The reason why your car dealership analogy fails is because a discount is not a rebate.

rebate
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...english/rebate
"an amount of money that is returned to you, especially by the government, for example when you have paid too much tax:"

discount
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...glish/discount
"a reduction in the usual price:"

Member for

19 years

Posts: 963

"Show me the sign that said there'd be £350m of savings. The sign said that we send £350m per year to the EU. It's a gross figure but it's a fact."

I'm sorry but you appear happy to be rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic, to make a pointless argument, whilst it's sinking into the cold icy sea. That was the statement, that was the inference, fact. It didn’t state save £179M but give £350M to the NHS or any other combination.

You'd be far better off having some passion and anger about reality about the mass exodus of businesses from the UK, it'll make that £350M paltry.