Just come across some new photos of the Dornier 17 (Goodwin sands) Raf Museum Cosford

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Hi
I have just come across some new images of the Dornier 17 (Goodwin Sands) from the Raf Museum Cosford, along with a few images of the Wellington and Hampden projects.

Maybe you have seen these already.

Have to say the Goodwin Sands Dornier 17 has come up fairly well considering.

Would anyone have some photos that they would like to share or some other images from the net? also has anyone recently visited and witness the progress for themselves?

Im going to try and get there before the year is out as the last time i visited the fuselage etc was still in the tents being sprayed for preservation.

https://www.cybermodeler.com/museum/.../cosford.shtml

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Profile picture for user jeepman

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The report is from over 3 years ago. There’s a picture of the completed fuselage of the Hampden in the latest issue of FlyPast. As feared it’s going on show at Hendon as it is and work on the wings has been put on hold for the immediate future.

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While it will be good to see the Hampden fuselage go on display, it's a shame to read there are no immediate plans to work on the wings. I bet the person (people) doing the work are motivated to complete the job. Projects lose momentum when focus is allocated elsewhere. Wait a few years, there could be a change of policy at the RAFM, and they may never get restored? Fingers crossed there is a plan.

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Sounds about right for the museum, do a half hearted job. Surprised Hendon has room for an aircraft these days, what with the interactive displays and tea room.

Profile picture for user Ant.H

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Great pics, thanks for the link.

Sorry to drag things a bit off-topic, but what's the plan with the Me410? Interesting to see it stripped down like that...

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The me 410 was brought to engine running status when at St Athan. A shame to see it like this.

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In the early 70's it was realised that the Halifax would , even at the most optimistic estimate, take up over five years of the entire RAFM's conservation budget to do the job properly. Look at how that seemed at first sight compared to the Do 17 . Authenticity has always been the byword at RAFM , unlike some of the superficial lash -ups evident elsewhere.

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Disappointed to hear the Hampden won't be completed at least not in the short term. Has a reason been given?

Profile picture for user Vintage

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The me 410 was brought to engine running status when at St Athan. A shame to see it like this.

I have no specific info but, you can see that the 410 is generally tatty around the edges and has a wing tank and skin panel removed. I presume that any repairs are conducted to the original specification and not just cosmetic? I have my doubts. If members care to look at the two DB603A engines in the background, you can see that they have been placed unsecured, resting on tyres on metal stacking racks. This is an entirely unacceptable practice, worthy only of a scrapman. Those engines are extremely vulnerable to damage on their undersides from such mistreatment. The DB603 should only be lifted by the correct lifting points and only fitted correctly into an aircraft, a correct transportation/storage crate, a construction stand or a teststand. During other operations, the DB603 engine can be fitted with the approved steel plate stands on the exhaust flanges for standing on a sound load bearing surface. RAFM should review their practices. Or, maybe I am misunderstanding the way that these rare aircraft are classed for preservation? Are they mere "relics", to be treated as scrap? Is the Defiant and other RAFM aircraft handled this way? Or, should all aircraft held by RAFM be handled with sufficient care to prevent damage? In my mind, the Me410 is worth several Million pounds. Should RAFM treat such valuable artifacts in this way?

V

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The report is from over 3 years ago. There’s a picture of the completed fuselage of the Hampden in the latest issue of FlyPast. As feared it’s going on show at Hendon as it is and work on the wings has been put on hold for the immediate future.

This idiotic policy is why Duxford have the only complete Anson 1 on this side of the world. All that work on the Wallace only to stick it in store, now the Hampden.

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Several restored former Luftwaffe ww2 airframes were taken from St Athan in 1976 and tragically placed outside Hendon for the exhibition"Wings of the Eagles" with no protection. This included the 410,FW190, Stuka and several others. Not for a week but several months. yet another example of the poor attitude within the museum at that time.These were not common post war jets but unique relics which should be given a much higher level of care. Had it not been for Tim Routsis many more rare gate gaurdians would have rotted outside.

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Yes scotavia, the outdoor display of the Luftwaffe types was a disgrace, much akin to the programmed destruction of the Hendon Beverley, flown in, neglected and scrapped. TBH, that photo of the Me410 engines, just crunched onto those steel stands, should be causing fireworks with the Trustees of the RAFM. I challenge here, the persons responsible for the standards of maintenance and preservation practices (the curator? ) to explain why those two engines are being damaged. Because, damaged they are being, without doubt. The underside of the DB603 is completely unstressed for setting the engine down. The underside of those 1,000Kg DB603's comprises, weak magnesium cam covers, pipework, fragile sheet metal inlet manifolds, Fuel injection pump and delivery pipework, magnesium throttle housing, throttle linkages and the coolant pump etc. So, come-on RAFM, explain please!
BTW, if the RAFM respond correctly to this post, I will happily explain who I am and offer my assistance to them with detailed information on this subject!

V

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Well, I see there is little interest from the RAFM, or anyone else? Come on folks, someone who reads this must have contact with the RAFM and be able to reply, or is no-one bothered? Why have we got the RAF Museum spending £££££££? on the reconstruction of a Luftwaffe machine when they are damaging the high-value artifacts that they already have responsibility for? Looking forward to any response!

V

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Pretty sure certain employees of the RAF Museum do look in on this forum, Vintage, so I’m sure your comments have already been seen!

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While we are at it, it would be interesting to know why the Catalina was taken from it warm dry shelter at Cosford and placed outside in the British weather.
Most aircraft museums are doing all they can to place their exhibits under cover.

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Pretty sure certain employees of the RAF Museum do look in on this forum, Vintage, so I’m sure your comments have already been seen!

Thanks for the comment Wyvernfan. I am aware that RAFM find the correct maintenance of exhibits irksome. I repeat my offer to assist them with information about the problem but, I have had no PM's. Cheers

V

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My understanding is that the Hampden fuselage will be on display at Hendon. Thats great news as the restoration looks great and perhaps some of the surviving aircrew that flew in one can see it. I dont think that the museum have any inner wing and engine area parts although the outer wings are restored. Just think how many years we would have to wait to see a complete airframe if we had to wait until inner wings were be built from scratch. Its good that the renovation staff available can work now on other projects such as the Me410. Aviation Museums don't have unlimited space so at times aircraft have to be outside or displayed incomplete. They also have limited numbers of restoration staff, so do you deploy them on one airframe and finish in 10 years or work on a variety of aircraft and improve their overall condition. Although it is not good for airframes to be outside, thats where many sat when they were in flying condition and they look more alive than squeezed in a building.

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Although it is not good for airframes to be outside, thats where many sat when they were in flying condition and they look more alive than squeezed in a building.

When in use, of course, they would be outside for periods of time but were also in hangars being maintained. Leaving preserved aircraft outdoors is NOT a good long term plan. I have no problem "shoe horning" them in if it keeps them warm and dry.

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My understanding is that the Hampden fuselage will be on display at Hendon. Thats great news as the restoration looks great and perhaps some of the surviving aircrew that flew in one can see it. I dont think that the museum have any inner wing and engine area parts although the outer wings are restored. Just think how many years we would have to wait to see a complete airframe if we had to wait until inner wings were be built from scratch. Its good that the renovation staff available can work now on other projects such as the Me410. Aviation Museums don't have unlimited space so at times aircraft have to be outside or displayed incomplete. They also have limited numbers of restoration staff, so do you deploy them on one airframe and finish in 10 years or work on a variety of aircraft and improve their overall condition. Although it is not good for airframes to be outside, thats where many sat when they were in flying condition and they look more alive than squeezed in a building.

Hi Robert.
It is a pity then, that the RAFM has failed to prioritise RAF aircraft preservation. Beyond that, I do not believe that the Me410 is a "project" to the RAFM, merely an enemy exhibit. Like many exhibits, it has suffered more during its time at the RAFM than it did during service.

V