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By: - 15th March 2020 at 14:32 Permalink
Maybe the DORIS at RAFM Hendon (askcollections@rafmuseum.org) can shed light on this?
By: - 15th March 2020 at 15:46 Permalink
Sorry aircraftclocks, I should have said we're looking at 1943-44. Thanks Avion, I have emailed the RAFM as you suggested.
I'm really confused. The file forms part of Bomber Command''s archives, and much of the correspondence talks about approaching the Air Ministry, which suggests that O.P.1, O.P.2 and O.P.3 were sections within Bomber Command itself. On the other hand, however, one entry states that "I was informed by O.P.2 (W/Cdr Clark) when I visited the Air Ministry....." which implies that O.P.2 was part of the Air Ministry. I've also approached the National Archives and RAF AHB for help, so one of these may be able to help. Thanks again both....
By: - 15th March 2020 at 16:46 Permalink
Maybe another avenue would be to try to identify Wing Commander Clark and, if you can do so, look into his service history in the years 1943/44?
By: - 15th March 2020 at 21:06 Permalink
Good point Avion, I will give that a try. Thanks again, Andrew
By: - 18th March 2020 at 09:01 Permalink
No success on finding W/Cdr Clark yet, but I have received a useful response from RAF AHB, as follows:
"The Air Ministry Distribution of Duties lists show the department and section codes in use at the Air Ministry. These are not the easiest of documents to use, but they do have the codes, the name of the office holder at that time, and a brief description of that section’s duties/responsibilities. The lists are broken down into organisational segments (i.e. Air Member for Personnel’s Department, Chief of the Air Staff’s Department, etc.), so they will also show where each section sits within the overall organisational structure.
"They are held in The National Archives, starting with AIR20/7499 (1917) and moving forward in time from there."
I've shared it as, although I think it will help me when I can get to Kew, it may also be useful for others to know about this.
Stay safe everyone....
By: - 18th March 2020 at 12:14 Permalink
I suspect that you are referring to Wing Commander F.C. Clarke (substantive date 22 May 41), who was a member of the Deputy Directorate of Organisation (Planning), part of the Department of the Air Member for Supply and Organisation.
By: - 18th March 2020 at 12:17 Permalink
By jingo, aircraftclocks, I think you've got it! How did you manage that - I thought I was reasonably OK at internet searches! Thank you very much! Andrew
By: - 18th March 2020 at 13:33 Permalink
It would take a bit longer to get his service number, as the info I have did not make any sense in this area, I didn't think it mattered that much so I did not figure it out.
By: - 19th March 2020 at 16:30 Permalink
So folks, I now know that I really need to look at documents AIR20/7516 and AIR20/7517 in the National Archives, but I won't be able to visit for some time yet. I don't suppose that anyone has electronic copies of these lying about on their laptops - do they? Just a thought.....?
By: - 23rd March 2020 at 13:12 Permalink
Mmm, I didn't think that would work - oh well ?
Perhaps someone can help me by identifying any of the following:
D/C Eng. O.
O.A.2
Org.3 (Organisation 3)
O.P.2
T.1
I'm now thinking that most, if not all, of these are sections within Bomber Command (possibly at its Headquarters.) As always, any help will be gratefully received. Thanks again. Andrew
Posts: 262
By: andrewclark - 14th March 2020 at 10:26
I am trying to find a list of Air Ministry Section (or Department?) numbers. For example 'O.P.1 and O.P.2'. I am researching the history of the RAF's 1690 Bomber Defence Training Flight (BDTF) and, in the Nation Archives document AIR14/1637 (for example), I am finding references such as 'Further to Minute 23, AIr Ministry, O.P.2 (W/Cdr. Clark) (no relation!) telephoned.....'. This, to me, seems to imply that O.P.2 was either a section of the Air Ministry or, perhaps a reference number for a particular post within it. As I am trying to understand the decisions made concerning the creation of the BDTF, I really need to know who the people who made them were. I guess, to do this properly, I need some sort of organisational structure diagram and index to this type of reference number. Unfortunately, however, I can find nothing of this nature published or online. Bearing this in mind, I would be very grateful for any help at all that anyone on this forum can offer in at least pointing me in the right direction.
Many thanks in advance for any help or advice offered……
Andrew