By: Gin Ye Daur
- 29th March 2020 at 21:21Permalink
Hi Alex,
Another good piece of restoration, well done and very nice to see. Is there much or, any visual difference between the MiG 15 and 17 throttle assemblies?
The difference between the MiG15 and MiG17 is quite small. This is mainly the mechanics of the levers of duplicate systems. Visually very difficult to distinguish
Does anyone know what the white spots are which seem to appear over time on the black stick coating, and how best to treat it & prevent its reoccurance? Thanks in advance.
By: Gin Ye Daur
- 30th March 2020 at 22:02Permalink
Hi Alex, thank you for that. I did wonder given their very close lineage!
Martynp,
If you are talking about the US 'plastic' B-5/6/7/8 and MC-2 series handles, it is just a naturally occurring oxidation that can simply be wiped off. It seems to depend on the atmosphere they are kept in and the type of plastic used in original manufacture and is not specific to just one producer. It is strange, as I have several handles made by Guardian Electric, Bendix, Ansul and Mason etc. all from different periods, some generate the oxidation yet some don't!
Others on this forum may have different methods but, I use an old tooth brush and white spirit for the US handles and WD40 or, similar for the British 'Dunlop' handles. (obviously take the necessary and appropriate precautions when using any solvent, use gloves, adequate ventilation, away from sources of ignition etc. etc.).
Again, if you are referring to the cast metal part of a Dunlop handle, it too is oxidization. Gentle scouring/wire brush to get the 'crust' off (dust mask!) and clean using WD 40, dry and put a coat of paint over it (I generally use acrylics as, they tend to leave less brush marks or, spray using one of 'Halfords' finest acrylic rattle cans.
If there are some small/large 'craters' left after you have cleaned the crust off, use black coloured 'Milli-putt' epoxy modelling filler to fill in the holes, (use a wet finger before it sets to smooth it, rather than wait till it dries and use abrasives, remember not to lick finger at this point). Then a coat of paint as above.
But, remember the degree of how much you restore a grip is entirely up to you. However, Dunlop grips will only start to oxidize if the bare metal is exposed so, a coat of paint will protect it long term. If you want to preserve it's originality, you must stabilise it before you paint it.
One way to prevent the oxidization from happening again and also to protect the rubberised 'Vulcanite' covering on Dunlop grips (as they age, the rubber degrades and wipes off, turning your hand black), is to give them a coat of 'Kleer' floor wax, (called 'Future' wax in the US I believe). However, as the many modellers here will tell you, 'Kleer's' formula has changed and it is not as good or, the same as it used to be. Fortunately, I brought a couple of the old bottles before the original went out of production!
Hi GYD - yes, it's primarily the B7 & B8 grips. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, particularly regarding preservation. I usually use wax polish, but I'll try WD40 and see how it goes. My own preference is to leave the grip / yoke in the same condition as when I got it, mainly because my restoration efforts would be very poor, particularly compared to someone like Visotka, who does an amazing job of restoration.
By: Gin Ye Daur
- 1st April 2020 at 21:39Permalink
Welcome ProudKerman!
Certainly not a common sight and neither is a Beaufort! Any pictures of the latter? Is that really the original twine around the hand holds of the Annie yoke?
By: ProudKerman
- 2nd April 2020 at 04:38Permalink
It is original twine from what I can tell :)
I'll have to try and dig up photos of it as they seem to have gone missing, it is very much a relic and I acquired it with other wreckage from the crash site to do up a memorial/tribute to the crew that were lost in the crash just haven't time to do up a board yet.
Saw mention of American sticks above, i am searching for a stick to suit P-39 (B-5 from memory) and also Beaufighter (longshot) for projects. :)
ProudKerman, there's always B series grips on fleabay. Beaufighter stuff is a lot rarer but does crop up occasionally. SpitfireSpares might have something.
By: Gin Ye Daur
- 2nd April 2020 at 14:51Permalink
ProudKerman,
Indeed you do need a B5 however, the ones fitted to the P-39 are unique in that they have the word 'Cannon' engraved behind/under the 'pickle button' on the top of the grip. As martynp says above, they (non-true P-39) B-5's pop up on e-bay but they can be a bit pricey, especially when you add on postage and any import duties you might face!
Will show the 'cannon' marking on the grip. I saved the 'picture as' and scrolled to enlarge it - and clearly shows the markings. I may have an archived picture of one somewhere but, ???
I may have also mentioned in an earlier post but, the B-5 had a modification made to put the top button into a recess to try and stop them being damaged when entering the cockpit. This modified grip was certainly used on the P-51 but, I haven't seen it fitted to other aircraft in pictures of that era - however, don't trust museum exhibits or modern rebuilds for accuracy!
By: Swifterr
- 4th April 2020 at 15:23Permalink- Edited 4th April 2020 at 15:34
Hello Visotka1:
I'm a little late to the party here but - very nice job on rejuvenating that Mig-15 throttle quadrant! Glad to see it was not over-restored...it looks great.
By: visotka1
- 4th April 2020 at 17:09Permalink- Edited 4th April 2020 at 17:10
Hi Swifterr! Thanks for good words)))
I am now busy restoring two sticks from the beautiful Tu-160. The director of the museum in Poltava, asked to make cosmetic repairs while the museum is quarantined. First of all, he made a rubber handle, since the native was destroyed by numerous visitors.
By: FLY.BUY
- 5th April 2020 at 08:39Permalink- Edited 5th April 2020 at 08:42
Attached is a picture of a AAF Beaufighter yoke and partial column. I have since acquired a gun button.
I also have a brake lever but now just looking for the brake lever Bracket to fix it into place.
By: visotka1
- 5th April 2020 at 15:51Permalink- Edited 5th April 2020 at 15:52
Hi, Martyn!
Yes, it's true, these sticks are magical! Of course, I will show a photo in the cockpit after restoration, but this is not a quick process! Unfortunately, even in my collection there is no such stick, so I decided to make a copy. It is not as expensive as the original))) Now I make a silicone mold.
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 29th March 2020 at 21:21 Permalink
Hi Alex,
Another good piece of restoration, well done and very nice to see. Is there much or, any visual difference between the MiG 15 and 17 throttle assemblies?
Martyn
GYD
Posts: 160
By: visotka1 - 30th March 2020 at 06:21 Permalink
Hi, Martyn!
The difference between the MiG15 and MiG17 is quite small. This is mainly the mechanics of the levers of duplicate systems. Visually very difficult to distinguish
Posts: 83
By: martynp - 30th March 2020 at 13:11 Permalink
Does anyone know what the white spots are which seem to appear over time on the black stick coating, and how best to treat it & prevent its reoccurance? Thanks in advance.
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 30th March 2020 at 22:02 Permalink
Hi Alex, thank you for that. I did wonder given their very close lineage!
Martynp,
If you are talking about the US 'plastic' B-5/6/7/8 and MC-2 series handles, it is just a naturally occurring oxidation that can simply be wiped off. It seems to depend on the atmosphere they are kept in and the type of plastic used in original manufacture and is not specific to just one producer. It is strange, as I have several handles made by Guardian Electric, Bendix, Ansul and Mason etc. all from different periods, some generate the oxidation yet some don't!
Others on this forum may have different methods but, I use an old tooth brush and white spirit for the US handles and WD40 or, similar for the British 'Dunlop' handles. (obviously take the necessary and appropriate precautions when using any solvent, use gloves, adequate ventilation, away from sources of ignition etc. etc.).
Again, if you are referring to the cast metal part of a Dunlop handle, it too is oxidization. Gentle scouring/wire brush to get the 'crust' off (dust mask!) and clean using WD 40, dry and put a coat of paint over it (I generally use acrylics as, they tend to leave less brush marks or, spray using one of 'Halfords' finest acrylic rattle cans.
If there are some small/large 'craters' left after you have cleaned the crust off, use black coloured 'Milli-putt' epoxy modelling filler to fill in the holes, (use a wet finger before it sets to smooth it, rather than wait till it dries and use abrasives, remember not to lick finger at this point). Then a coat of paint as above.
But, remember the degree of how much you restore a grip is entirely up to you. However, Dunlop grips will only start to oxidize if the bare metal is exposed so, a coat of paint will protect it long term. If you want to preserve it's originality, you must stabilise it before you paint it.
One way to prevent the oxidization from happening again and also to protect the rubberised 'Vulcanite' covering on Dunlop grips (as they age, the rubber degrades and wipes off, turning your hand black), is to give them a coat of 'Kleer' floor wax, (called 'Future' wax in the US I believe). However, as the many modellers here will tell you, 'Kleer's' formula has changed and it is not as good or, the same as it used to be. Fortunately, I brought a couple of the old bottles before the original went out of production!
Hope this helps?
Martyn
GYD
Posts: 83
By: martynp - 31st March 2020 at 16:27 Permalink
Hi GYD - yes, it's primarily the B7 & B8 grips. Thanks so much for taking the time to reply, particularly regarding preservation. I usually use wax polish, but I'll try WD40 and see how it goes. My own preference is to leave the grip / yoke in the same condition as when I got it, mainly because my restoration efforts would be very poor, particularly compared to someone like Visotka, who does an amazing job of restoration.
Posts: 30
By: ProudKerman - 1st April 2020 at 09:37 Permalink - Edited 1st April 2020 at 09:39
Original Avro Anson control column has to be my favourite so far along with my relic Beaufort.
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 1st April 2020 at 21:39 Permalink
Welcome ProudKerman!
Certainly not a common sight and neither is a Beaufort! Any pictures of the latter? Is that really the original twine around the hand holds of the Annie yoke?
Martyn
GYD
Posts: 30
By: ProudKerman - 2nd April 2020 at 04:38 Permalink
It is original twine from what I can tell :)
I'll have to try and dig up photos of it as they seem to have gone missing, it is very much a relic and I acquired it with other wreckage from the crash site to do up a memorial/tribute to the crew that were lost in the crash just haven't time to do up a board yet.
Saw mention of American sticks above, i am searching for a stick to suit P-39 (B-5 from memory) and also Beaufighter (longshot) for projects. :)
Posts: 83
By: martynp - 2nd April 2020 at 14:24 Permalink
ProudKerman, there's always B series grips on fleabay. Beaufighter stuff is a lot rarer but does crop up occasionally. SpitfireSpares might have something.
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 2nd April 2020 at 14:51 Permalink
ProudKerman,
Indeed you do need a B5 however, the ones fitted to the P-39 are unique in that they have the word 'Cannon' engraved behind/under the 'pickle button' on the top of the grip. As martynp says above, they (non-true P-39) B-5's pop up on e-bay but they can be a bit pricey, especially when you add on postage and any import duties you might face!
GYD
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 2nd April 2020 at 14:56 Permalink
In fact: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-WWII-era-Original-Aircraft-Fighter-Stick-Grip-Type-B-5-used-P51-P40-P47/254525935287?hash=item3b42ed8eb7:g:zs8AAOSwMEleWXu5
as an example.GYD
Posts: 774
By: hawker1966 - 3rd April 2020 at 18:58 Permalink
Hi Gin Ye Daur
I hasn’t relised that in regards to the P39, would anyone have any images of the P39 grip showing this?
So would the grip I have be from either P51, P47 and a P40?
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 3rd April 2020 at 20:31 Permalink
Hi Hawker 1966,
Hopefully, this link:
https://www.reddit.com/r/WWIIplanes/comments/68n33e/bell_p39_airacobra_cockpit/
Will show the 'cannon' marking on the grip. I saved the 'picture as' and scrolled to enlarge it - and clearly shows the markings. I may have an archived picture of one somewhere but, ???
I may have also mentioned in an earlier post but, the B-5 had a modification made to put the top button into a recess to try and stop them being damaged when entering the cockpit. This modified grip was certainly used on the P-51 but, I haven't seen it fitted to other aircraft in pictures of that era - however, don't trust museum exhibits or modern rebuilds for accuracy!
GYD
Posts: 30
By: ProudKerman - 4th April 2020 at 09:13 Permalink
Found the pics of the Beaufort yoke, as I said it's certainly in relic form and will be built into a memorial display with the other recovered parts.
Posts: 774
By: hawker1966 - 4th April 2020 at 14:47 Permalink
Many thanks Gin Ye Daur, at least the grip I have narrows it down to P51, P47 and P40, an interesting fact in regards to the recess firing button.
A nice yoke proudkerman that ouzes history.
Posts: 58
By: Swifterr - 4th April 2020 at 15:23 Permalink - Edited 4th April 2020 at 15:34
Hello Visotka1:
I'm a little late to the party here but - very nice job on rejuvenating that Mig-15 throttle quadrant! Glad to see it was not over-restored...it looks great.
Posts: 160
By: visotka1 - 4th April 2020 at 17:09 Permalink - Edited 4th April 2020 at 17:10
Hi Swifterr! Thanks for good words)))
I am now busy restoring two sticks from the beautiful Tu-160. The director of the museum in Poltava, asked to make cosmetic repairs while the museum is quarantined. First of all, he made a rubber handle, since the native was destroyed by numerous visitors.
Posts: 524
By: Gin Ye Daur - 4th April 2020 at 19:53 Permalink
Hi Alex,
They are a very nice pair indeed! I wish I had one of those in my collection! Can you post a picture of the whole cockpit when they are refitted?
Martyn
GYD
Posts: 1,424
By: FLY.BUY - 5th April 2020 at 08:39 Permalink - Edited 5th April 2020 at 08:42
Attached is a picture of a AAF Beaufighter yoke and partial column. I have since acquired a gun button.
I also have a brake lever but now just looking for the brake lever Bracket to fix it into place.
Posts: 160
By: visotka1 - 5th April 2020 at 15:51 Permalink - Edited 5th April 2020 at 15:52
Hi, Martyn!
Yes, it's true, these sticks are magical! Of course, I will show a photo in the cockpit after restoration, but this is not a quick process! Unfortunately, even in my collection there is no such stick, so I decided to make a copy. It is not as expensive as the original))) Now I make a silicone mold.