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By: - 27th December 2005 at 07:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I'm stunned.
I thought Airbus had this. Honestly I did.
A pinch or two of Politics anyone?
By: - 27th December 2005 at 08:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aeroflot already operate 9 or so B767s and a handful of DC10s, so maybe it's not all that astonishing.
After all, we know a couple of other airlines rather closer to home that use Airbus types for medium haul and Boeing types for long-haul, don't we? :D
By: - 27th December 2005 at 09:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aeroflot already operate 9 or so B767s and a handful of DC10s, so maybe it's not all that astonishing.After all, we know a couple of other airlines rather closer to home that use Airbus types for medium haul and Boeing types for long-haul, don't we? :D
Perhaps for you.
But for me its a revelation. I'm not going to go into it, but I'm sure you have a fair idea what I'm getting at.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 11:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
this 787 thing is hitting airbus pretty badly.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 12:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
this 787 thing is hitting airbus pretty badly.
I'm not so sure about that. Their A350 is selling. Though I'm sure not as well as Airbus want it to.
the trouble is, they focused too much on fitting more seats and trying to woo Emirates. They lost sight on what the 787 realy is, an A310/767 replacement. The A350 is essentialy an A330/A340 replacement. Two lines Airbus continue to sell.
There certainly is room for both on the market, but an answer to the 787 the A350 is not.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 12:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Exactly. They will probably service the 2 different markets - the 787 the smaller market, and the 350 the larger one.
Airbus has 157 orders on the 350 as of 23rd December, where as Boeing's 787 had 364 (plus 28 for aeroflot) and a lot more airlines.
I would have thought Aeroflot would have gone with the Airbus offer, since they have taken delivery of A32X family recently, but obviously 787 fitted their needs better.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 13:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I personaly think that Airbus made a mistake by pumping so much money into the A380. I know they thought that airlines would rather have hubs than go from point-to-point, but they must also have known that the market for such a huge beast was much smaller than the 787. For a start, huge a/c like that are only really used by flag carriers or large pan globe airlines, and even then many only go as big as the 777. The 787 however appeals to many more airlines- flag carriers, other pan globe airlines, charter airlines , high capacity internal routes (in places like USA). The natural replacement for the 757/767 is the 787, and so many airlines around the world use these aircraft that they will turn straight to Boeing for the next model (plus Boeing are cheaper). The A380 doesn't have a predecessor- the largest Airbus before it is the A340 and that doesn't have anywhere near the capacity of the A380. It's a completely different size market. Therefore the only rival to the A380 is the 747, which has been around for donkeys years, is used by lots of different airlines, and shows no signs of bowing out. In fact Boeing are now going to bring out a stretched version to better compete with the A380, further limiting the A380s market, for the same reason as the 787. At the end of the day, smaller capacity, longer range & two engines is the latest "in" thing. Although the 747 continues to do well, it's sales over the past few years have been falling, while sales of the 777 have been soaring, now more then ever. I can see Boeing coming out on top.
* I know this thread is about the A350, I'm just saying why I think the 787 will win, and how I think Airbus should have competed head on with the 787 in the first place, instead of building the A380.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 14:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Fantastic news, the 787 in Aeroflot colours will be stunning!
By: - 27th December 2005 at 14:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Aeroflot returned the 777's it had due to the overcapacity that a/c had for their routes. A350 is simply too big for them.
787 is an excellent choice for any airline, and doubly so for Aeroflot.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 14:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
quite an un-expected decision from Aeroflot i must say. But welldone to Boeing for bagging more orders. :)
By: - 27th December 2005 at 17:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think we discussed this somewhere else before. Aeroflot were likely to chose Boeing because of the sweetners. Both airlines offered their discounts and whatever but what really sold the B787 to Aeroflot is that Boeing offered them MD-11Fs a type Aeroflot desperately want but couldn't find
By: - 27th December 2005 at 17:11 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I remember an interview with their CEO in which he stated that Airbsu will take over their small body fleet. He said nothing about their long range needs. So I thought they were leaning towards Boeing.
By: - 27th December 2005 at 17:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
While I hope this proves true, I think we'll find out in March... ;)
By: - 28th December 2005 at 02:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Howdy,
Political considerations will take central stage when Aeroflot makes its decision on either the 787 or A350. Part of the equations is EU-Russian and US-Russian relations. The decision is not completely an economic one at all. In this area, the EU may have an edge. On the other hand, the recent 2004 elections in the Ukraine may have hurt Airbus in this area. Also, as a comparison, when Air France decides on an aircraft, the decision is almost entirely an economic decision. Certainly the EU and French governments may pressure the company, but the decision comes down to the bottom line and not national pride. Aeroflot is a different story entirely.
My personal opinion is that the A350 is an after thought for Airbus. The money and company's focus is tied up with the A380. The A350 seems more of an A330 upgrade than a new concept. Boeing has spent a considerable amount of money and time developing the 787. Airbus has spent little time developing the A350. The perception by the carriers is that the 787 is the latest and greatest while the A350 is late 1980's technology with an upgrade.
One big advantage Boeing has over Airbus with the A380 vs. 747 Advanced is that the mortgage on the 747 has already been paid. Development costs for upgrading the 747 are insignificant compared to what Airbus had to spend on the A380. Boeing will be able to sell the 747 Advanced for less because of this and this will hurt Airbus. While the A380 represents the latest in aircraft technology and the 747 does not, it will come down to the cost per seat mile and again the 747 has an advantage with the exception of flag carriers who show the national flag and give less thought to economic considerations (remember the 747 in the early 70's? Every carrier had to have it even if the airplane did not make economic sense. Most US carriers got rid of the aircraft pretty quickly as it did not make economic sense. Several EU carriers like SAS did the same).
I would add that Boeing's decision to heavily involve several Japanese companies in the development of the 787 may turn out to be a brilliant move on it's part. Suprisingly there has been little interest by ANA and JAL in the A380. These are two companies that probably could use this aircraft.
Bkonner
By: - 28th December 2005 at 11:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It was the availability of MD-11F that swung it for Boeing, Aeroflot was desperate to get their hands on them for the cargo services
By: - 29th December 2005 at 05:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A350 will definately see more orders now that the 787 slots for 2008 and 2009 are almost sold out..Unless boeing finds a balance b/w risk and slots then all the airlines that want a 787 type aircraft by 2008-09 would have no other choice but to go for the a-350.
By: - 29th December 2005 at 05:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
well im with most people here when i say: Im surprised by thier move
By: - 29th December 2005 at 06:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A350 will definately see more orders now that the 787 slots for 2008 and 2009 are almost sold out..Unless boeing finds a balance b/w risk and slots then all the airlines that want a 787 type aircraft by 2008-09 would have no other choice but to go for the a-350.
The real shame is, the A350 is not a 787 stype aircraft. Its bigger, heavier and will need more seats filled to break even.
Posts: 12,109
By: bring_it_on - 27th December 2005 at 07:12
With singapore Looking likely to be going boeing for its massive order Aeroflot just announced that it has selected the Boeing 787 for its ops and a contract is dew in march...something like 28 aircraft.
http://today.reuters.com/business/newsarticle.aspx?type=tnBusinessNews&storyID=nL27275701&imageid=&cap=