Merchant shipping

Read the forum code of contact

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

http://supertankers.topcities.com/1cc30a40.jpg

First time I see a ULCC being launched in the "conventional" method.

And this one's better to compare:

http://supertankers.topcities.com/13600520.jpg
Let's do a pull-out contest with the bulldozer.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 847

Seeing ships scrapped is always a sad sight, but part of the eternal cycle of birth, death and renewal that drives industry forward.
In commercial shipping, there does seem to be a lot of "bigger is best" thinking even if sometimes it is not strictly true. Not just in container carriers, but if you look at AHTSS types the engine powers are now huge with bollard pulls that are frightening, yet often the much smaller but more economical types get equal or even higher day rates.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 847

Anybody interested in size and lots of big ships together should try and visit Ras Tanura, one of the main Saudi oil export terminals someday, it's very impressive.

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

Nice you mention that. Ti Europe was heading that way after I disembarked too.

Another recommendation would be to visit the C anchorage in Fujairah or the tanker anchorage in Singapore. Full of big boys. They don't like small boats crossing in between though.

Yes those new AHTSS are getting big too. Question for you though, what is bollard pull? I know it's expressed in tonnes but I have no clue how they measure it... Does it have something to do with the engine power or with the winch power?

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 847

Bollard pull is primarily a function of engine power, it is the pull in tonnes measured at the stern. Winch power is a controversial subject, Bratvag will tell you they'll sell you a 200T winch with a drum that can hold 5000m of 77mm cable (that is just off the top of my head, not an actual figure BTW, I'm just giving an example) but they are not as quick to tell you that the 200T pull is measured on the first cable layer, as you spool on the cable the pull drops heavily and if the drum has 5000m spooled on it you'll be lucky to get half of that. Winch power is not the same as bollard pull, although to utilise a high pulling power winch requires a high bollard pull, the winch power is the capability of the winch whereas bollard pull relates to the power of the actual vessel. A big complication is that when anchor handling the vessel will be using tunnel and/or azimuth thrusters and powering it's winches, spooling gear etc., which draws an awful lot of electrical power which on this type of vessel tends to come from shaft generators, and this obviously drops the bollard pull down heavily. The bollard pull is worked out in a static test, although I've never witnessed one so I can't tell you anything about that, sorry. Some of the winches in large AHTSS now are huge and more and more of them seem to be going electric rather than hydraulic thanks to the ever dropping prices and increased reliability of inverter drives and load banks for control, although Bratvag still insist hydraulic is best.

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

Anybody interested in size and lots of big ships together should try and visit Ras Tanura, one of the main Saudi oil export terminals someday, it's very impressive.

Just make sure you have permission to be sightseeing.....

:)

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

Steam winches are the best, although a bit noisy and nasty. Hydraulic is second best, electric is for cruise ship barby dolls.

Indeed, if you have more cable on your winch, the turning moment will get bigger and the winch will indeed have some trouble. I wonder what the break power of that winch is? Normally the break can hold quite a larger weight than the winch can pull.

Azimuth/bow thrusters indeed consume way too much power. For that reason you can often only use them for 15 minutes at a time. I had a simulator manoeuvre failed by that. I was using it to make a 180° turn with a 265m long container vessel. Didn't work out well as I used it over 15 minutes (well it seemed like seconds at that moment). Got an alarm, but as it was a simulator I was allowed to proceed the manoeuvre. 300m behind me, 60m in front, there are nicer moments in your life ;)
I'll see if I can scan the "perfect manoeuvre" of that exercise.

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

Severnaya Verf launches Stoiky
corvette for Russian Navy
St. Petersburg's Severnaya Verf shipyard laid the keel Friday of the Stoiky corvette for Russia's Navy.
The Stoiky will be the fourth corvette of the Project 20380 series, after the Steregushchy, the Soobrazitelny and
the Boiky, designed by the Almaz Central Marine Design Bureau and built at the shipyard. Deputy Navy Commander
Mikhail Zakharenko, who took part in the keel-laying ceremony, said that the first ship built in the series, the
Steregushchy corvette, shipped out Friday for testing.

Navy Commander Admiral Vladimir Masorin said in May at the Steregushchy launch ceremony that the event marked
the beginning of a new stage in the development of Russian military shipbuilding.
"Russia must maintain its Navy," he said, adding that Russia planned to launch a new ship in each design series every
year starting in 2006, and that construction of new combat ships will ensure security at sea and global stability.
"Ships of this series [project 20380] will also help ensure Russia's energy security," Masorin said. Russia has
designated energy security its number one priority during its tenure this year as chairman of the Group of Eight
leading industrialized nations. Masorin said the corvettes will protect oil and gas transportation routes, especially in the
Baltic Sea and the Black Sea.
The Boiky and the Soobrazitelny, ships of the same series, are still being constructed at the shipyard. The Stoiky
corvette has a displacement of 2,000 metric tons, a maximum speed of 27 knots, a crew of 100 and is equipped with
stealth technology.


From Tass.

CSSC buys Hudong Heavy Machinery
According to China Knowledge, China State Shipbuilding Corp, one of the world's five biggest shipbuilders, will take
direct control of Shanghai-listed Hudong Heavy Machinery before its planned US$800 million IPO on the Hong Kong
Stock Exchange next year, according to the South China Morning Post on Thursday. Hudong Machinery, which has a
60% market share in Chinese production of low-speed diesel engines for ships, said Wednesday its two largest
shareholders will transfer their combined 53.27% stake to their parent, State Shipbuilding. The transaction will not
involve any cash. According to Hudong Machinery, the deal has already won approval from the China Securities
Regulatory Commission (CSRC) and the State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission.

Member for

17 years 11 months

Posts: 847

Steam winches are good for bigger ships with steam generating plant (boilers) but offshore vessels very rarely have boilers to drive steam powered equipment so are limited to either electric or hydraulic. The advantages of hydraulic are it is very rugged, tough and offers superb fine control quite easily, it is also repairable in the field. Electric systems are compact and get rid of the oil systems, reduce auxilliary plant requirements and now offer control as good as hydraulics, but there are issues with the effects of transients on the main switchboard feeders, generation stability and regenerative power dumping, and a big problem is that if they fail in service they often need specialist service technicians and spares to get them back into action. Maersk were really into electrics. One interesting aspect of the rig winches (not the AHTSS winches) is they tend to use sea water hydrodynamic braking.
Thrusters use huge amounts of power, on some of the big AHTSS and PSV types you are losing 50%+ of engine power with all the thrusters and deck equipment running. That said to see the manouvering abilities of those boats is awesome, they can do miracles and it always amazed me to see one of them sitting under the rig on DP for days and days with the OOW just looking at a PC screen and the DP computers doing the rest :)

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

How does the access system for Docks 31, 32 and 33 work at the Lisnave shipyard and why wasn't a simple separate individual access to all three docks used?

http://www.lisnave.pt/yards.htm

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

To be honest, NO CLUE! I first thought it would work like the Russian SSBN handling in Severodvinsk, but I don't see any tracks...
My guess is that cost is one of the major reasons for this. Fistly they only have to dredge one channel to a certain depth. Secondly they have to buy a lot less land.

I think there are seperate doors, so I first thought they flooded the entire triangle except for the docks with closed doors and hence moved a ship forward into the deeper channel for outfitting. I don't think it's possible though, looks too large an area and the walls don't look high enough to move a ship.

This is something funny too. The Shortening of some VLCCs from Agip:

Agip Abruzzo
http://supertankers.topcities.com/part-1/6e420e00.jpg
Note the bow is pulled by a tug into the harbour while the part that's being deleted is moved out. Afterwards the bow is reconnected.

Agip Marche

Here you can see how huge the inside of such a single hull tanker is:
http://supertankers.topcities.com/part-1/6ee61200.jpg

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

Got this from another board.

http://p216.ezboard.com/fwarships1discussionboardsfrm4.showMessage?topicID=1343.topic&index=1

The drydocks are above sea level. The triangle section is a ship lift: you push the ship into the center channel, which is deep draft at sea level. A gate caps the tip of the triangle, and water is pumped into the triangle. This lifts the ship up about 25 feet. One of the three docks is then pumped full of water also, and the gate across the dock is opened to allow the ship to float into it. The dock and triangle are allowed to drain, and the ship is left high and dry above sea level.

The triangle design allows a single ship lift to service all three docks, and the sloped bottoms reduce the amount of water that need to be pumped in.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/shiplift.jpg" alt="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v136/paul1/shiplift.jpg" style=";" />

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

Thanks, the perspective got me confused. I had the same thought, but thinking that the sides towards the deep draft channel were flat and not sloped. That made me confused about the possible draft they could reach. This indeed makes sense.

Here's some more shipbuilding news from Sweden:

KOCKUMS DEVELOPING SUBMARINE
FOR UN OPERATIONS
SSG-GOTEBORG. German-owned Kockums in Malmo and Karlskrona is developing a research program together with
the Swedish Defence Material Agency (FMV) - submarine A26 - which will be specially adapted for UN operations
around the world. The submarines will be equipped with stealth technology and will be employed in intelligence
operations. The Swedish Defence needs two new submarines to replace the Sodermanland and the Ostergotland.
Work on the submarine project A26 will proceed until next March, when the Swedish government and the
Commander-in-Chief of the Swedish armed forces will decide whether a formal order will be placed with Kockums or
whether the project will continue with another cooperation partner. An order for two submarines would be worth about
SEK 3 billion.
"We hope and believe that we will win the order. It would mean a lot for Kockums and Swedish submarine research",
says Kockums´ Senior Vice President PR & Communications, Kjell Gothe.

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

Building the Steam Navy, Dockyards, Technology and the Creation of the Victorian battle Fleet 1830 – 1906 by David Evans.

Page 170

Another far sighted plan, this time for containerised transport of coal to the yards, was submitted in December 1846 by the solicitors to the Bristol & Poole harbour railway, who having a floating dock at their Bristol terminus:

…by which means their iron Barges containing the Boxes with Welch Steam Coals...will be placed on the Line and conveyed without shifting, or break of gauge direct to Her Majesty’s Stores either at Gosport or Portsmouth or by means of a Pier alongside of which a Steam Ship may lie and the Coals be placed at once on board – affording thereby a continuous supply of Best Steam Coals in first-rate conditions…

They had submitted a scheme to supply 21,000 tons annually to Mr Russell, contractor for supply of coals at Southampton for the Great Western Steam Navigation Company, the P & O Steam navigation Company, and the Royal West India mail Company, and to the Engineer in chief of the last. And they had agreed to support the plan. There would be a small increase in price, but this would be compensated for by the excellent condition of the coal. This offer was not taken up.

If this had been taken up, could we have seen containerisation earlier?

Member for

18 years 6 months

Posts: 932


If this had been taken up, could we have seen containerisation earlier?

Coal is a bulk commodity, and I have a hard time envisioning the economic containerization of a bulk commodity.

In a way, it is surprising that containerization didn't come earlier, though. Before the advent of sealed containers, an astounding percentage of cargo was stolen or damaged by dock workers. Turnaround times in port were also astoundingly long - one reason why tramp steamers persisted as long as they did.

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

TinWing, there really are Bulk containers around. Those are standard containers in size but have a strengthened body and a hatch near the bottom (equally long as the container, some 30cm high). They are mainly used for trains but can also be placed on ships, much like the pressurized tanks that are put into a containerframe for use onboard ships.

Bulk is however not expensive enough to be placed in containers. And container ships have MAJOR disadvantages for the transportation of cheap goods. For example an empty container weighs 2tons, that means that for example the Emma Maersk, sometimes carries 22,000ts of useless weight, even if the containers are empty.

A bulkcarrier on the other hand doesn't suffer from these disadvantages as it's basically "full" of cargo.

Another problem with bulk in containers is that, for example iron ore, gives a major issue in stability and it would complicate the container ship stability calculation in a big way. Strength is of course also an issue, if the number of such containers is limited the shear forces and bending moments (pretty weak spot for container vessels) might become a problem. (it actually already does on bulkcarriers, in '90's there were a LOT of sunk bulkers due to collapse of the ship's structure).

As for the "earlier", containerasition was pretty fast. You have to take in account all the factors involved, the development of trucks, ships, cranes etc. Those were all not really developped when the beginning of containerisation started (with a conversion of a T2 tanker if I remember correctly).

One major issue about container ships and that's what most people don't know, is the GT /tax issue. A ship's port taxation and pilot fees are calculated on its gross tonnage. That tonnage is an internal volume of the ship (well it was, nowadays it's a just some type of measure but not at all the internal volume). Practically a tanker carries cargo in its holds only. A container vessel however carries volume inside the hull, but, stacks (more and more) cargo on the deck. Those volumes are no internal volumes and hence not taken in account for taxes. So practically it has only half of its cargo volume to pay for in taxation. That is also why they want to keep stacking those containers higher and higher nowadays. Pretty complicated, but smart. Now it's just a matter of time before they adapt the taxation of course. Luckily changes never come fast in shipping.

Member for

17 years 4 months

Posts: 586

I wonder if the Venezuelan people know how much their government is taking from their pockets just to thumb their nose at the US and to snuggle up with the Chinese? 40 days lease of a Super would bust my bank account and then some!(actually the first few hours of leasing would do that!)

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

Does anyone know what the largest ship to use Tilbury docks in the UK is?

Its just that in the early 1800's there was a proposal to close Woolwich and Deptford Royal Docks and replace them with a new Royal Dock at Northfleet (opposite Tilbury) and i'm wondering in theory what size ship the RN could have used this yard assuming the entrances could be made big enough.

Member for

18 years 5 months

Posts: 627

German captain involved in crane
mishap is 'not a criminal'
By : JONAS LYBORG
As a professional, I followed with interest the investigation and trial of the tragic accident at the Port of Mobile, where
the ZIM Mexico III ship collided with a crane, which collapsed, and an electrician was killed. This was a very tragic
accident, but still an accident.

And what was the outcome? Settlement of damages to the crane is ongoing with the port. The family who suffered
such tragic loss has settled out of court, even though money cannot compensate for the loss of a family member. And
we all suffer with the family.
So what remains? Obviously, we must have somebody to blame, so a federal prosecutor went after the captain of the
ZIM Mexico III. He is being treated like the worst criminal we have seen.
The only word that can describe what is going on is "injustice." Or perhaps this is some sort of prosecutorial revenge.
The prosecutor has managed to send the 59-year-old captain, Wolfgang Schroder, to jail together with criminals such
as sex offenders, pedophiles, killers, robbers, etc. Will this bring the deceased electrician back? Of course not.
So how is it possible that an accident can develop into such injustice? What happened, and who is this terrible
"criminal"? Unfortunately, the information in the news media and on the Internet has created a picture that is far from
accurate.
The vessel was departing from the port in Mobile as normal. The main engine (which drives the propeller) was used;
and the shaft generator, which supplies power for all consumption, was connected. The speed of the main engine is
controlled by a device (a governor) that controls and eliminates variations in revolution (speed). The bow thruster was
running and power was supplied via the shaft generator.
Due to a sudden variation of the main engine, the bow thruster lost power and failed, reducing the turning speed and
causing the vessel to hit the gantry crane.
A tugboat had not been used and had not been ordered. Who can order tugboats? The captain can. The pilot can also
order tugboats if he wants to, and so can the shipping agent. This is the standard procedure in all ports.
In addition to this, a special port or port area can have a requirement that all vessels must be assisted by tugboats.
So why did the captain not order tug-boats? Because he did not suspect any problems. Would he have ordered
tugboats if he had known that the bow thruster was not working? Of course. Would he have ordered tugboats if he
had suspected that there was something wrong with the bow thruster or that something might fail? Of course.
Would the pilot have required tugboats if the bow thruster was not working? Yes. Would the pilot have required
tugboats if he had suspected that the bow thruster would fail? Yes. So would the shipping agent.
So why no tugboats? Because neither the captain nor anybody else suspect any problems with the bow thruster. The
media have reported that there were some problems with the bow thruster last year. Maybe so, but here is another
important thing.
A ship is like a small village. Electricity, drinking water, food, repairs, etc., all are supplied by the equipment and
people onboard. Electricity is produced by a shaft generator or separate auxiliary engines, water is produced on board,
security controls are done on board, food is prepared on board and all sorts of repairs are done on board.
All this is accomplished by the crew, which consists of a workforce of navigational and technical experts as well as
handy-men under the leadership of a captain.
If there were problems with the bow thruster five or six months earlier, who investigated and repaired the problems?
The crew. And the bow thruster worked after that. The crew is qualified enough for all this work, and is definitely
qualified enough to say, when appropriate, "This is too complicated for us and we need to call in a specialist."
Another point of discussion is the fact that vessels are maneuvered, without bow thrusters, on a daily basis all over the
world. Experienced pilots and captains are arriving, departing and turning vessels in various locations using only their
main engine and propeller in combination with the rudder.

I am sure that this was also desperately tried by the pilot and captain at the time of the accident in Mobile. However,
when you are in the middle of a serious situation, your immediate, split-second decision or delayed decision can
change everything. Later you will face the "Monday morning quarterbacking" in a calm, detached environment.
In this case, the quarterbacking was done by a non-maritime prosecutor, and it forever has changed the life of a
foreigner, a German captain.
Maritime officers and engineers spend many years in training on board vessels as well as in shipyards, electrical
workshops and schools before being allowed to finally work on board as officers or engineers. This is followed by
several years at sea before they might be promoted to captain or chief engineer, which are the two highest positions
onboard.
Capt. Schroder started his career when he was 16 or 17 years old and has spent his whole adult life at sea, including
many years as a captain with the same company. He has taken vessels in and out of ports thousands of times. He has
taken vessels in and out of Mobile many times without any problems.
How many vessels are coming to and leaving Mobile or other ports in the Gulf area every year? How many are coming
and leaving without the assistance of tugboats? Thousands.
So what is so special with this accident? Who is responsible? Who should pay for repairs of damages to the Port of
Mobile and compensation to the family?
All vessels must have insurance. If an accident happens, the insurance will have to pay -- which, most of the time,
leads to an increase in the ship's insurance premiums. In this case, a settlement has already been arranged and the
insurance premiums will most likely reflect that later on.
Meanwhile, should this accident lead us to continue on a path of revenge and injustice?
After the accident happened, an investigation was done by the U.S. Coast Guard. The vessel was thereafter allowed to
continue sailing between the Caribbean and U.S. ports without any problems.
However, in April, when the vessel was in Houston two months after the accident, the captain was asked to come
ashore for clarification and additional questioning. He was then immediately arrested, handcuffed and taken to jail. He
was shortly thereafter transferred, as a prisoner, to Mobile.
Thanks to his lawyers and a bond of $500,000, he was released from jail. Bond was provided by the German ship
owner, which fully supports its captain. The captain surrendered his passport to police.
After the verdict, he was re-arrested and taken to jail, where he awaits sentencing.
International maritime law and regulations recommend that a vessel's "flag state" deal with relevant punishment and
consequences. In this case, that should be Antigua or Germany. I do not understand why we do not follow these
international agreements in this case.
A German captain should be tried in a German court and an American captain in an American court.
Other points to consider:
--Why did several jury members seem to be very upset and disturbed by the verdict? Did they not agree with it?
--Thorough information on how many seconds the injured electrician might have suffered before he died was
presented in the trial. What did it have to do with the accident?
What good did it do? If somebody were killed by strangling or drowning, then it might be relevant in court, but not in
this case.

--The prosecutor created a picture of the captain as a person with "worldwide" contacts, a major flight risk, families in
several places, etc., all in order to destroy a professional captain and foreigner who was involved in an accident.
Nothing of this is or was relevant.
--In 2001, the USS Greenville -- an American vessel -- killed nine Japanese people. The investigation afterward
showed that the commander of the Greenville was trying to show off for some visitors onboard and operated the
submarine recklessly.
He killed nine people and sank a fishing vessel. He was found to have acted with "gross negligence."
The final penalty, issued by an American court, was only an official "reprimand" and partial loss of salary (however,
with retention of his pension and retirement). This, for killing nine Japanese.
A captain is always responsible for his vessel and crew. No questions about that. In the case of the ZIM Mexico III,
an accident happened and the vessel's owner, captain and relevant insurance companies will have to bear the full
responsibility. And they have done so.
Is Capt. Schroder a criminal? No.
In fact, several years ago he was awarded a medal by the king of Belgium for bringing his vessel to provide assistance
and support when the vessel Herald of Free Enterprise sank in 1987 in the English Channel. His ship was first on
the scene, and his prompt actions and decisions saved numerous lives.
I do hope that the family of the deceased electrician can forgive him and understand the suffering he and his family
are now going through due to a prosecutor's attempt to make a technical accident into "criminal neglect."

If you know what this is about, it's pretty silly! No wonder no one ever wants the responsibility of becoming a captain anymore. The only thing they do is hunt you with claims and things like this. Rewards for anything good and even the normal salary are pretty low compared to the punishments you get.
Typically US after all. They're a bunch of sissies not knowing anything about shipping and only protecting themselves. Rumsfeld killed 1,000's of people and he doesn't even get punished. This captain just did his job. If someone onboard would have died, would that have caused him to get jailed too? Probably not as the people onboard are no US citizens.

CALL FOR ACTION ON FATIGUE STUDY
UK officers’ union Nautilus, the union for maritime professionals, has called for “urgent and radical action” to combat
fatigue at sea following the publication of a major research report into the scale of the problem.
The six-year study was co-sponsored by the Maritime & Coastguard Agency and the Health & Safety Executive, with
support from the Union and the Seafarers’ International Research Centre at Cardiff University.
The 86-page report concludes that excessive working hours are a significant problem for the shipping industry –
posing serious safety hazards, and dangers to the health and wellbeing of seafarers. Key findings include: • Almost
50% of seafarers taking part in the study reported working weeks of 85 hours or more • Around half said their working
hours had increased over the past 10 years, despite new regulations intended to combat fatigue • Almost 50% of
seafarers taking part in the study consider their working hours present a danger to their personal safety • Some 37%
said their working hours sometimes posed a danger to the safe operations of their ship • One-in-four seafarers said
they had fallen asleep while on watch The report recommends a range of measures to address the problem, including
a review of the way in which working hours are recorded, better fatigue management training, an industry standard
for measuring fatigue, and an auditing tool to assess the significance of various risk factors.
Nautilus UK general secretary Brian Orrell says: “This proves conclusively the serious nature of the problem and the
massive scale to which it is suffered by seafarers.”

Russia Scraps 145 Out Of 197
Decommissioned Nuclear Submarines

Russia has dismantled 145 out of 197 decommissioned Soviet-era nuclear submarines, the head of the Federal Agency
for Nuclear Power said Tuesday.
Russia has signed cooperation agreements on the disposal of decommissioned nuclear submarines with the United
States, Britain, Canada, Japan, Italy and Norway. The disposal program will cost an overall $2 billion, toward which
Russia had allocated $850 million as of 2005.

"We have a joint nuclear submarine dismantlement program that involves a number of countries, including EU
members," Sergei Kiriyenko said. "Out of 195 nuclear submarines decommissioned from the Russian Navy, we have
dismantled 145".

"The disposal of another 17 is under way, and we are preparing to scrap 32 more in the future," he said.
During the dismantling process, spent nuclear fuel is removed from the submarine's reactors and sent to storage, the
hull is cut into three sections, and the bow and stern are removed and destroyed. The reactor section is sealed and
transferred to storage.
"We will scrap all decommissioned nuclear submarines by 2010," the nuclear chief said.

Member for

17 years 7 months

Posts: 338

Dibden extension

What size ship is the Dibden extension planned for?

Has the MOD looked at the implications for larger ships to be able to use Marchwood?