Russian plane 'crashes into road outside Moscow'

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A Russian passenger plane has crashed into a main road outside Moscow, reports say.

Russian state television says the plane overshot the runway after landing. Officials said up to 12 people were on board and that no-one was killed.

Full story here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20865369

Original post

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Oh dear. The aircraft is in three pieces over a main road. Cockpit separated and on other side of road. TU-204/214 first hull loss.

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RT Newswire are now reporting 4 dead. Such a shame, I actually had high hopes for the airline - I've been tracking its progress over the years from unknown obscurity to one the country's largest charter airlines.

I know it is very early on in the investigation, but can I just throw out incorrect landing configuration as a possible cause - rather than mechanical/weather issues?
I've been looking at the flight path on flightradar24, it seems it started it's descent from FL 330 awfully late (it was practically over the city). I don't know if this is a standard descent and approach into Moscow? It's rate of descent to the airport was alarming from FL200 to FL100.
So, it does make me wonder if the crew were in such a rush they missed some items off the check-list - hey, it's happened before.
I can also see from the flight path that their final approach speed and altitude were fine.

http://www.flightradar24.com/#!/2012-12-29/11:50/RWZ9268
Of course, it's all speculation at the moment.

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http://newsru.com/russia/29dec2012/vnukovo.html

A Red Wings Tu-204. Pretty much ends any remaining hope of a Tu-204SM sale to Red Wings.

RIP to the passengers 4 dead.

Why should it affect Tu-204SM sales could be a pilot error or judgement error ..its not the first airline in the world to skid the run way .....could be bad weather too

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Investigation blames pilots for Tu-204 crash in Vnukovo

http://www.itar-tass.com/en/c32/613279.html

MOSCOW, December 29 (Itar-Tass) — The Investigation Committee blames pilots of the Tu-204 plane for the aircraft’s crash at the airport of Vnukovo, Investigation Committee spokesman Vladimir Markin told Itar-Tass.

Criminal proceedings have been instituted on this case, Markin said.

“The investigation blames pilots for the plane’s crash,” he noted.

According to the Investigation Committee’s data, during the crash landing, two crewmembers died.

Meanwhile, the Emergency Situations Ministry said three crewmembers had been and four crewmembers had been injured. One more pilot was not hurt. Eight crewmembers were aboard the plane.

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The blood of the victims is still warm, isn't it a little premature to be drawing conclusions?

I'm disappointed with the investigators, I highly doubt they've had time to check braking efficiency let alone analyse the the flight data recorders.

It's highly worrying that the Russian investigators are fixated on pilot error - surely they should be keeping as open a mind as possible? But hay-ho, that's the Russian's for you. They did the same less than 24 hours after the Polish President's plane crashed in 2010 http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/pilot-error-suspected-in-polish-presidents-plane-crash/story-e6frfku0-1225852296619

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Sad news. Condolences to all concerned:( Wether or not this turns out to be mechanical failure, weather related, or pilot error, surely its a little premature to institute criminal proceedings against the crew:rolleyes:

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But they were right, were they not?

Well, in that instance I guess they were right.

But (assuming flightradar24 is correct) the flight was landing at around 130 kts (which is fine) and the flight made an approach lower than that of the previous landing aircraft (so altitude was also fine).

Unless the crew forgot to select an appropriate auto-break setting (which is possible as I believe they were under stress, see previous post) then I don't see where the crew went wrong?

The only possible conclusions I can draw for crew error is they forgot to apply the breaks or retard the throttles - both seem almost to obvious to mention, it's practically built into these guys DNA.

But they were right, were they not?

Yes, by sheer dumb luck, not because they were privy to any worthwhile analysis and information, which simply does not exist so soon after the event. Chances are they will be right again this time actually, for the trivial reason that statistically most modern airliners crash due to human error, but it's still unprofessional in the extreme to present mere unconfirmed probabilities as fact.

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Yes, by sheer dumb luck, not because they were privy to any worthwhile analysis and information, which simply does not exist so soon after the event. Chances are they will be right again this time actually, for the trivial reason that statistically most modern airliners crash due to human error, but it's still unprofessional in the extreme to present mere unconfirmed probabilities as fact.

And I would second that...

Just like the Russian judicial system and courts have a 99% conviction rate or there about...

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An interesting snippet of information

"A Tu-204 plane overshot the runway on Dec. 21 at Tolmachevo airport in Novosibirsk because of a malfunction with the brakes, Rosaviatsiya, Russia’s state airline watchdog, said in an e-mailed statement. Rosaviatsiya had warned OAO Tupolev (TUPL), the manufacturer of the plane, on Dec. 28 about the malfunction, the agency said."
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-12-29/two-dead-as-flight-from-czech-republic-crashes-at-moscow-airport

I wonder. :rolleyes:

http://avherald.com/h?article=45ad34b5&opt=0

EDIT: Oh and this one... http://avherald.com/h?article=45899785&opt=0
That's three Red Wings Tu-204 overruns in less than 2 months.
Either it's bad luck, or something's going wrong?

EDIT 2: This is a very sad image I found - 2 hours before the crash. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:RA-64047_two_hours_before_crash.JPG

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RIP to the Dead and Condolences to their Family.

It seems the Tu-204-100 was on a return flight from Czech after dropping the passengers so it seems atleast the plane funcioned well while landing at that airport.

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There are photo's on russianplanes.net of the plane landing normally at the other end of the runway.
From the speed of the impact on the highway video I would judge they were not at the end of a long braking run.

To me it looks like they landed, found the brakes were not working properly and tried to take-off again.

This would also explain why authorities said it was at a second landing attempt while flightradar shows it was not. They were in the process of going for a second attempt.

That would make it a technical error with the brakes, highly probable with the service bulletin to grease the brake limiters the day before, followed by a to late decision to abort the landing.

just my speculation
rgds
EC