Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps

Profile picture for user Fedaykin

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14 years

Posts: 5,267

Outburst is rather pejorative. I and others here took the time to underline specific points with arguments.

And by the way, close to home is quite short for an argumentation.

And remember, there is not known action AFTER the plane was set in a dive. Nothing in the 8 min long descent. I am sorry, but it does not fit (Ok, I give up with the capital letters)

It got your attention.

You were speculating not making an argument.

Saying it is close to home was not an argument. It was a statement, I have flown that route making this incident uncomfortably close to home for ME!

Let the air accident investigation team do their job.

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11 years 11 months

Posts: 2,248

Well said Fedaykin.
Although I'm surprised at the speed at which suicide has been declared at this time there is no reason to dispute the official information.

Profile picture for user swerve

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14 years 6 months

Posts: 13,433

I can't help but feel that the prosecutor is being a bit premature, but apart from that I thought that at least two people always had to be on the flight deck? Not necessarily two pilots but two people, if only to make sure that the PIC didn't fall asleep!

Regards


In some countries, & elsewhere on some airlines. Not a world-wide rule. But rapidly heading that way.

Andreas Lubitz is reported to have -

- Had to take a months-long break from training in 2008 because of an episode of depression.
- Been off work, under treatment for depression for 18 months after completing training in 2009.
- Left a torn-up sick note (condition not officially stated) signing him off work, covering the day of the crash, at home, & not told his employers about it.

It looks to me very likely that he was undergoing another episode of serious depression when he flew that plane into the ground. He may not have planned it: he may only have known what he was going to do when the opportunity presented itself & he did it. We'll never know.

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 111

Not yet mentioned as far as I have read anywhere on line.

Why have we heard nothing of Passengers last minute phone calls, after all they must have known that the aircraft was descending. Eight or so minutes to make calls and this time not as the Malaysian aircraft ( over water far off land) but over the South of France. But no calls ?

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,852

Not yet mentioned as far as I have read anywhere on line.

Why have we heard nothing of Passengers last minute phone calls, after all they must have known that the aircraft was descending. Eight or so minutes to make calls and this time not as the Malaysian aircraft ( over water far off land) but over the South of France. But no calls ?

Yes I mentioned it (page 1). Some calls or connection might hve passed through when the plane was low (at least text messages - we have discussed it around MH370 and came to the conclusion that it might be better to text and expect a bandwidth availability for the data to be sent).

Here, please remind that this is a 1990 plane used for short hauled flight that might not have been fitted with a proper passenger communication/entertainment equipment:

Registration: D-AIPX
C/n / msn: 147
First flight: 1990-11-29 (24 years 4 months)
Total airframe hrs: 58300
Cycles: 46700

Source:

http://aviation-safety.net/

Profile picture for user Sintra

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12 years 3 months

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Why have we heard nothing of Passengers last minute phone calls, after all they must have known that the aircraft was descending. Eight or so minutes to make calls and this time not as the Malaysian aircraft ( over water far off land) but over the South of France. But no calls ?

The descending was not abrupt, fast, but nothing extraordinary and the aircraft went against some pretty high mountains, at the altitude of the crash site there will be clouds bellow. The passengers woud be aware that the aircraft was descending, but they wouldnt be aware of a crash risk right untill the last moment.

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8 years

Posts: 5,852

Some might hve noticed the high value of the decent rate (3700ft/min - 1200m/min) and the speed (400kt- ~800-kph). Buffeting was certainly noticeable with objects shaking and stewardess having difficulty to walk in the alley for example.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236340[/ATTACH]

Cloud cover was only localized close to the point of impact (hence mountain view was obstructed only at the last minutes - from my mem - have to check weather of the day).

And last but not least, a pilot trying to break through the cockpit door* might have raise some attention...

*especially with an axe as recently reported

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19 years 11 months

Posts: 111

Hello TomcatViP,
Was that the one line in post 9 on page one ?

Of interest is the C-130 (UAV Controller ?) in the area at the time, it would be possible one of those UAS/UAV's to have gone wild
when AIPX was too low over the restricted area ?

Prosecuter was so fast with statement of blame ?

Also on line it has been reported that the Co-Pilot had converted, so perhaps not just a suicide after all ?

Profile picture for user J Boyle

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15 years 1 month

Posts: 9,664

Hello TomcatViP,
Of interest is the C-130 (UAV Controller ?) in the area at the time, it would be possible one of those UAS/UAV's to have gone wild
when AIPX was too low over the restricted area ?

You say there was a C-130 in the area...and immediately assume it was a UAV controller? That's a might big leap!
There are a lot of C-130s out here....how many are UAV controllers?
Does France have any so configured? If not who?

The tinfoil hat brigade on PPrune already is mobilized....someone thinks the aircraft was hacked from the ground as a demonstration.
The govts. of France and Germany...and Airbus presumably, have already paid a ransom to the plotters. They then came up with this cover story to blame the co-pilot.
You see, if the secret that hacking a passenger jet was possible, Airbus shares would plummet.

Of course, conspiracy buffs ignore the anything standing in the way of a Bond-worthy story.
Like the sheer logistics of keeping so many people quiet. How many people would need to be bought to keep the UAV story secret? (C-130 crew, their commanders, ATC, Intel, recovery crews, buying off any witnesses on the ground...etc, etc.)
How many would be involved in the hacking and ransom story on PPrune? You'd need a bus just for the bankers, accountants and attorneys.
In these days of professional leakers and media outlets ready to make any informant rich and famous...it must be quite a job to keep people (not just loyal military people and govt. officials) silent.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 527

Please. Is it so hard to refrain from far-fetched speculation during the investigation?

My thoughts are with the bereaved. May they find the answers that they and many others seek.

I wish the accident investigators good luck in their mission. I sincerely hope the media activity over the last few days and its potential consequences will in no way affect the integrity of the investigation process.

(Not aimed at you, Boyle).

Member for

8 years 8 months

Posts: 6,467

Please. Is it so hard to refrain from far-fetched speculation during the investigation?

My thoughts are with the bereaved. May they find the answers that they and many others seek.

I wish the accident investigators good luck in their mission. I sincerely hope the media activity over the last few days and its potential consequences will in no way affect the integrity of the investigation process.

(Not aimed at you, Boyle).

Speculation in search of the truth is an absolutely essential part of the process. Without speculation reinforced by hard evidence, it is not possible to cover all the contributory factors.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 527

I've only had a limited academic introduction to accident investigation methods. It is true that speculation is part of the process at a later stage, i.e. analysis phase and thereafter. I've been taught that this must build upon the collection of as much relevant data as possible followed by an exhaustive mapping of all relevant event sequences. Regardless of this, I'm not familiar with the BEA's standards or the current state of the investigation. I would assume that it hasn't come that far yet.

Anyway - thank you for your input, but I don't see how it relates to the forum activity I mentioned.

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9 years 9 months

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What surprises me the most in this affair, is the haste that the authorities have come to their conclusions,
as to the cause.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 527

I might be wrong, but the French prosecution (not the accident investigation board) has presented some early findings as pointing towards a probable cause, not as a conclusion. How parts of the media may have chosen to convey this is another matter.

It could be that the French authorities chose to go public this early due to a leak to the New York Times. I think this development should be addressed sooner or later.

This statement is a good one, IMO:

IFALPA strongly condemns leaking of CVR data

Profile picture for user charliehunt

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7 years 2 months

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I wholly endorse that statement.

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7 years 1 month

Posts: 406

It could have been worse. If the co-pilot was so deranged that he wanted to be remembered as a mass murderer he could have brought the plane down on Marseille.

What I find curious is that the medics did not see fit to report his condition to the appropriate authority so that his licence would be suspended. After all your GP would not hesitate to report a medical condition impairing your ability to drive to the DVLA.

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13 years 7 months

Posts: 784

TomcatVIP and skyshooter bring up VERY good points.
This whole story seems (media wise) seems very "open and shut" case well before the official investigation is completed.
The release of CVR info so quickly (within what 40hrs?) is highly suspicious and there is no mention of the FDR (which the media has reported as damaged).

How can any conclusion be made with both the CVR and FDR properly analysed?

This is nothing more then trial by media and what is even more bizzare is most of this information is coming from a lawyer??

Reading a story this morning its now reported he was seeing no less then FOUR doctors now. None of whom reported his condition to the relevant authorities.

Why fly into a mountain? The time to descend surely must of played on his train of thought? There is studies done whereby most people who attempt suicide at the last second will change their mind. He had 8 to 9minutes to be thinking about this.

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,852

Yes. Easy to say that part of the press have gone ... Cuckoo on that case

Here is a snapshot of the CNN account on Youtube:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236358[/ATTACH]

I watch CNN way more than I should and I have never seen such vulgar editing before*.

Also, I agree with you regarding the awkward attitude of the prosecutor. He is the one in charge for the inquiry with public interest in mind and should not have draw such hasty conclusion.

Regarding the facts, we shld consider the unexpected delay at Barcelona. It might have something to play here, especially if we consider that he was sick, took some medicines and the plane was relatively high for what he might have been used flying short haul. Just see it as if he was severely diabetic.


*And, when I had time, I was a fan of Miss Burnett show

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14 years 10 months

Posts: 407

TomcatVIP:

Why we need to find the FDR!

Did the Capt attempt to activate the "numeric pad" outside the cabin door?? Will this parameter be recorded in the FDR when found?? Will the timing match the activation of the toggle switch door inside the cockpit to the "lock position" ??