Germanwings airliner crashes in French Alps

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

Yes. I agree. There will be probably not much to discuss until then.

For the Oxy Mask, the press allegedly cited the leaked VCR transcript. I have a hard time imagining that the redaction of Bild or Paris Match would have added that detail by themselves.

CNN published today a good interview of the Paris match journalist on their website:

http://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/04/01/ac-sot-germanwings-cell-phone-video-paris-match-reporter.cnn

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 407

TVip:

Rg! Tks for the info/data provided. The 'real' investigation' will take some time! We have now the CVR/FDR on hand to pursue facts. As usual, the media will go its own way!! ..the rumors & leaks will cont!!

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 997

TomcatVIP:

Will this parameter be recorded in the FDR when found??

The door lock key pad is not linked to the FDR so, no.

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 997

Tomcat VIP:

Plz clarify for the audience: How many of the so called 'black boxes" are on an AB 320 1990 model/Newer models?? Is the data of the FDR recorded in a separate box??

There are two "Black boxes" A Cockpit voice recorder (CVR) and a flight data recorder (FDR) They are mounted together at the back of the aircraft. Both recorders are similar in construction with the data being recorded in highly strengthened sections of each recorder. The FDR records about 25 hrs of data and the CVR records between half an hour to two hours of radio, intercom and ambient flight deck noise.

As you can probably guess when the FDR is analysed they can filter out a lot of the background noise so that is probably how the co pilots breathing was picked up.

A lot of the switches and knobs in the flight deck have distinctive clicks when operated and can be recognized by an experienced 320 crew. The click of the door lock is quite distinctive and the rate of climb/decent knob on the mode select panel clicks as it is rotated.

As for the rapid released of information. A lot of it has been leaked so that has forced their hand. Also the lack of information in the Malaysian Airlines case has cause so much pain for the relatives and created allsorts of bizarre conspiracy theories that, perhaps the French decided to avoid all of that. Mind you some people are still trying!

Rgds Cking

Profile picture for user 27vet

Member for

10 years

Posts: 2,670

Too much leaking! The media grabs these leaks and sensationalizes them. This causes more distress for the families. The perpetrators leaking information are unprofessional and should be brought to book.

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

Another twist to the story:

http://wtop.com/health/2015/04/faa-had-questioned-mental-health-of-germanwings-pilot/

"Modified living conditions"?

Anxiety, home sick, shy or bullied (we don't know and PPL can be competitive when airlines grants are scares)... Nothing that point to a silent Mass-Murder killer with no known self-glorification. It only says that he had some problems and was taking medicine provided by untrained physicians (not ones dedicated to flight sciences).

It still does not fit the Silent crazy Kamikaze frame.

Profile picture for user 27vet

Member for

10 years

Posts: 2,670

I read it. The powers-that-be will have to come up with a better solution to the cockpit door problem, but more importantly, the screening process. Having two crew in the cockpit, say one pilot and a cabin attendant won't cut it. As can be seen in the other examples they give at the end, even if there are two crew in their seats one could be physically stronger than the other and still put the plane out of control. There is a distinct advantage to having a three crew cockpit. The money they have saved by doing away with the flight engineer is not worth the lives that have been lost in these deliberate crashes.

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

25000€ for your Uncle, your daughter or your own mother, Germanwing Said

Some of the close relatives of those killed in the Germanwings plane crash in March have rejected the carrier's offer of 25,000 euros ($27,000) in compensation payments for their pain and suffering.
[...]
The 25,000-euro offer is on top of 50,000 euros already paid as immediate financial assistance to relatives. German law does not usually provide for a separate award for pain and suffering
[...]
Relatives living in Germany may also claim an additional 10,000 euros each as compensation for any health problems without needing to offer formal proof, the company said.

The grotesque has reached no end.

Source:
reuters.com

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

You know that there is nothing tangible for the Suicide theory... No close witness account, no written testimony, no known earlier attempt, no released CVR tape etc... We have only concurring proof recovered afterward on a striking fashion like the notebook and the unwritten testimony reportedly from doctors subject to patient's confidentiality. That's all. This case won't stand long in front of a criminal court running a daily routine.

I am not saying that this didn't happens like the facts are portrayed, but we should remain cool minded and acknowledge that in such case his family owns the right to remember him as they knew him for real (as opposed by the prosecutor). Even more, we might see someone comes into the media spotlight* to ascertain how a sob he was.

*Meanwhile, the press coverage is strangely muted when there are way more matters to draws concurring theory. And in that case, no Aliens involvement! But probably that's why ;)

Example:
[ATTACH=CONFIG]245124[/ATTACH]

Attachments

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

I wonder if I should put more material?

Member for

10 years 3 months

Posts: 2,536

25000€ for your Uncle, your daughter or your own mother, Germanwing Said

The grotesque has reached no end.

Source:
reuters.com

I wonder what I would do in that situation having lost my family?
25000, 25'000'000 ?
I don't think either would be compensation. Could I spend the money, enjoy the money knowing what it cost?
An acceptance of fault, a sorry from the CEO and time to mourn?
Or just accept the fact and walk away?
Strangely the last option seems the best.

Profile picture for user 27vet

Member for

10 years

Posts: 2,670

Money is not compensation for a lost loved one. The money won't bring the loved one back.
What makes me more mad is that yes they are probably hiding facts to shift the blame from the airline, manufacturer and/or system.
Blame it all on Lubitz.
Same as AF447, blame it all on the pilots.

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

I wonder what I would do in that situation having lost my family?
25000, 25'000'000 ?
I don't think either would be compensation. Could I spend the money, enjoy the money knowing what it cost?
An acceptance of fault, a sorry from the CEO and time to mourn?
Or just accept the fact and walk away?
Strangely the last option seems the best.

Money makes for a salary lost in a family for example.
You can then be able to send your child through some studies instead of being forced down a position where he can't fulfill his aspirations
Money makes for a mortgage that can be paid instead of a house lost
Money makes for psy support instead of depression
Money makes for dignity instead of charity reliance.

Your post is really odd. But perhaps you'd like to think that the dead were all illegal immigrants inbound to tap social benefits?

Member for

10 years 3 months

Posts: 2,536

Your post is really odd. But perhaps you'd like to think that the dead were all illegal immigrants inbound to tap social benefits?

Just trying to equate loss versus compensation.
I really don't get the immigrant or benefit comment as my post mentions neither?

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

In the final report, p24:

All French civil radars are compliant with Mode-S EHS, but in March 2015, Mode-S
downlinked parameters were not yet shown on French controllers’ stations.
The changes of selected altitude during the Düsseldorf to Barcelona flight
(see paragraph 1.11.4) and the accident flight were therefore not displayed to the air
traffic controllers in France.

The report also denied that the plane was intercepted before the crash had occurred (p25):

At 9 h 48, a fighter jet from the French Air Force took off from the military airbase of
Orange, after having been ordered to do so by the national centre of aerial operations
at 9 h 41. The military plane flew over the vicinity of the accident site at 10 h 01. [time of crash was 9:41]

The FDR was localized in a totally different area than both the CVR and QAR (p29):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]255793[/ATTACH]©BEA

Only the BEA has knowledge of a severe psychiatric disorder (p33) :

All the AMEs from the Lufthansa AeMC who examined the co-pilot for the revalidations
of the class 1 medical certificate were aware of the waiver that the co-pilot had.
They all assessed his psychological and psychiatrist fitness through observation of
behaviour and discussions. None of the responses provided by the co-pilot raised any
concern among the AMEs about a mood, neurotic, personality, mental or behavioural
disorder that would have required further psychiatric evaluation

When

[...] However, the majority of the team of experts
consulted by the BEA agreed that the limited medical information available may be
consistent with the co-pilot having suffered from a psychotic depressive episode that
started in December 2014, which lasted until the day of the accident. Other forms of
mental ill-health cannot be excluded and a personality disorder is also a possibility.

For God Sake, what is this ?!! Freaky.

Report accessible here in PDF (English language)i

Attachments

Member for

8 years

Posts: 5,848

I am re-reading this last post in the light of a French court decision lately in favor of a general release of all charges against Airbus and Air France in the AF447 crash and feel highly depressed. Scarcely had regulation of public transportation sunk into such a dark age (the secret pact around MH17 inquiry is an acute example). The BEA latest series of high profile inquiry results and aggressive moves toward non-European industry has turn it fully into a political body soaked with partisanship. I fear that Germanwings was not a climax of miss handling cases but the opening set of a new norm.

This court decision - if not reversed - is putting discredit on all professionals.

The ten years of investigation into the crash of flight AF447 from Rio to Paris, which killed 228 passengers and crew members on June 1, 2009, could lead to no prosecution. The investigating judges have dismissed the case for manslaughter against Airbus and Air France.

In July 2019, the Public Prosecutor’s office had requested Air France to face trial for manslaughter and negligence in the training of pilots and dismissed the case against Airbus. However, the investigating judges of the Paris court decided not to follow the requisitions of the Public Prosecutor, and also dismissed the case against Air France. "This accident is obviously due to a conjunction of elements that never occurred, and thus highlighted dangers that could not be perceived before this accident," said the judges, quoted by AFP.

The main association of relatives of victims, “Association entraide et solidarité vol AF447”, will appeal a judgment "that insults the memory of victims", ​​told its lawyer Alain Jakubowicz. The association had already contested the decision of the Public Prosecutor’s office, stating that no trial “can only comfort Airbus in a feeling of impunity harmful to the safety of all”. In June 2019, the SNPL, Air France’s main pilot union, had also demanded everyone involved in the crash to be sent to court.

https://www.aerotime.aero/clement.ch...rbus-dismissed