Air Wales plane in near miss!!

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Profile picture for user DME

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mmm, going by the start of the article you would think they were rushing head on a full speed - not the case they were taxiing, and the return to the filed was unrelated. I was wondering how it managed to takeoff after juddering to a hault, then I realised it was all off of the runway it happened. Oh well.
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That sounds bad! :( Out of interest does anyone know which aircraft was involved? :confused:
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That sounds awful. Glad they didn't collide!!! On the topic of Air Wales: Liverpool is now back on thier booking system!! :rolleyes: It looks like they've messed up again :D

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This wouldn't be the first time something like this has happened at Paris CDG. Last time though, it was fatal. If I remember correctly one of the main contributing factors was the fact that Paris ATC insist on talking in French to French a/c. I'm not sure if they still do or not.
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Well to be fair it is France after all, English is the official ATC language but I'm sure most french pilots feel more at home in their own country speaking their own language. I'm sure the same would apply in all countries that don't have English as the national language.
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I'm pretty sure in a programme about that accident in CDG, that CDG is the only major airport to use two different languages for ATC communications. Potentially (Well proven) very dangerous, if you don't understand the language, how the hell are you supposed to be able to understand what another pilot is saying?
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You wouldn't need to know what the other pilot is saying. It's the responsibility of the ATC to control movements and prevent accidents and in the let one know what the other is doing and vice-versa, in the end it's not the pilots overall responsibility to have to understand what the other pilot(s) is saying. Agreed though it does provide some sort of back up when you know what's going on around you.
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I'm pretty sure in a programme about that accident in CDG, that CDG is the only major airport to use two different languages for ATC communications. Potentially (Well proven) very dangerous, if you don't understand the language, how the hell are you supposed to be able to understand what another pilot is saying?
There's a big thread about this on PPRUNE: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=205761 All sounds a bit dodgy....

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Many thanks for bringing that pprune thread to our attention RIPConcorde. It makes an interesting read to say the least! What the French are doing by refusing to use English in all ATC transmissions is not only very dangerous, but extremely unprofessional and incredibly selfish in my opinion. It would be poor practise at any airport, but at one of Europe's largest and busiest international airports, handling huge amounts of aircraft movements every day it's even worse. Every other airport makes the effort and uses English for all transmissions. My question is what's stopping them? It would appear the French are fully capable of communicating in English as the ATCOs communicate in English to non-French speaking aircraft all the time, and the pilots communicate in English at non-French speaking airports all the time. It would therefore appear that the only reason they are communicating in French is because they simply can't be bothered to communicate in English! I find it hard to believe that they are putting thousands of peoples lives at risk every day due to their laziness, and in my opinion that's totally unacceptable. I also find it incredibly hard to believe that fatal accident occured there a result of this, and yet Paris ATC continue to speak only in French to French a/c. Although the language difference was not the sole cause of the accident a few years ago, it was certainly a main factor and a prime example of what happens when ATC fail to follow rules and communicate as they should do. I think the senior management at Paris CDG have to face up to some serious issues before a major accident happens. It will be too late then, and after a lot of hurt and upset. It would seem they are prepared to wait for another accident to happen before they are forced to change the way they work. The international rule of using English for all ATC transmissions is there for a reason - It saves lives. I just wish Paris CDG would get a grip and start doing things properly before many people die in a tragic accident.
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I couldn't have put it better BY, a superb post :).
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Agreed, that was a well contructed and written post BY767, I can still sympathise with the French position too, is there not another major airport in the world with a similer situation going on and it does work? Canadian airports for example...... I just reckon there is some kind of 'thing' between the French and English where there has always been a 'hidden' dislike of each other. Can this refusal to speak English be down to that or is that just ridiculous!?
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Yes it is irritating when the French use french to talk to french aircraft (this really does look a mouthful!). However, they have every right to do so. You see, english is not the only accepted language in aviation, strange as it may seem. ICAO, being the very political thing it is, says the acceptable languages for commercial aviation are english, french, spanish and russian! Until ICAO changes that, the french will use french. It is a very dangerous situation. The only time I've got a TCAS Resolution Advisory (CLIMB-CLIMB) was in the CDG approach sector, when the Air Traffic Controller started speaking french when things hotted up a bit, after his own ****-up. The situation was not helped by the fact that this was a really international operation! The aircraft was registered in Switzerland, the captain was icelandic, the first officer dutch and we were flying on a french callsign!
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It would therefore appear that the only reason they are communicating in French is because they simply can't be bothered to communicate in English!
It isn't that they can't be bothered. It is pure jingoistic arrogance of a type that all of us who have worked with the French in business recognise only too well. In commerce it is just a petty and rather sad irritation. In the safety critical environment of air traffic control at a major airport it is bordering on reckless endangerment IMO. It is a pity that people will have to die before the controllers get stamped on. Moggy
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It is just a petty and rather sad irritation. In the safety critical environment of air traffic control at a major airport it is bordering on reckless endangerment IMO. It is a pity that people will have to die before the controllers get stamped on.
Is it me, or is English suppose to be the standard language that all air traffic controllers should use to communicate? Trust the French to break this...(if I am correct!) :p
Air Wales said yesterday it had not received any complaints from passengers on board the service and that neither crew members or passengers had been in danger.
I am baffled to know as to how Air Wales can think that they weren't in danger...? The passengers were put at risk, and I think there should be an enquiry to find out who's fault it was (pilot or ATC), either way there has been a serious breach of communication between the two IMO!
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It's all a bit funny really RE: CDG and the language issue. It is generally accepted that pilots like to know what is going on around them because it adds another layer of safety, and so this counteracts the argument that ATC should be giving accurate instructions. There have been plenty of cases whereby ATC instructions have been wrong, mis-heard, or just not audible, take the Tenerife disaster for a start. Having to deal with two languages only increases the workload for the Air Traffic Controllers, and therefore increases the chances of incidents. Interstingly Air France wanted their pilots to use English at CDG because they felt it was better for safety on the airfield, but it was the threat of a pilots strike that made the company back down and give-in to their employees. I think its a shame that in the name of safety the French pilots cannot use a standard language. If its only pride, then they would do well to remember that in shipping the primary language used is French, so they have one up on us there. You just need to look at the Streamline incident at CDG to see the benefits of awareness!!!!!! One pilot killed, put down to ATC error, and rightfully so because conflicting commands had been given, but the Streamline pilots were nto aware of the instruction given the french pilots because it was doen in French!!