By: keltic
- 5th September 2008 at 14:00Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Latest. A mobile on could have caused the electric malfunction, which made the alarms, didn´t sound. So, the first crash caused by a mobile?. Sounds really disturbing.
Iberia is not using MD88 any longer after the crash. Spanair planes, are checked by Iberia, whose maintenance is simply perfect.
More cancelations. A groups of passengers rioted in Spanish Salamanca Airport after the B737-800 from Air Europa, had a minor technical problem. After negotiations the airline used a A330 to take them to the destination.
Media is mixing MD series aircraft with other Boeing models. I am feeling a little bit more uneased about flying.
By: Super Nimrod
- 5th September 2008 at 20:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Times are saying that they didn't deploy the flaps as well. Wasn't there a serious DC9 incident many years ago that was very similar, that led to various warning systems being fittted ?
By: PMN
- 5th September 2008 at 20:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it possible that there may have been some confusion between the captain and the first officer. One of them wanted to abort again, but the other disagreed as is would only distress passengers even more. So perhaps the one that wanted to abort second time attempted it, by putting the right engine in reverse thrust. Then the one that wanted to continue possibly continued on with departure and rotated. Seconds later the aircraft would have stalled?
This is just my theory, im sure we will no the truth when the black boxes are revealed and when national geographic make an eposide of air crash investigation
Josh
Hmm... I really can't imagine that scenario working in any way! Firstly, the ultimate decision to do anything lies with the Captain, and for an F/O to go against his decision probably wouldn't be a good thing (athough I'm more than willing to be corrected on that by some of you people who actually do fly these things). Secondly, even I, with my meagre knowledge, know that applying reverse thrust to just one engine on an MD-80 during the takeoff roll while the other is at takeoff thrust won't do anything other than create a situation that isn't entirely desirable. Surely the people actually flying the aircraft know that as well?!
Huge scandal as the Ministry of Transport is leaking important information to the press before conclussions are final. The pilots from the Pilots Trade Unions who were participating in the comission has withdrawn considering that this is not serious for a civilized country.
By: Newforest
- 10th October 2008 at 09:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Confirming Super Nimrod's post, non operation of the flaps together with the lack of an audible warning of their non-operation was the cause of the accident although the official report will not be issued for many months.
One would wonder whether any of the cabin crew could have noticed that the flaps had not been deployed?:confused:
That would probably be logical, but would the cabin crew be seated in an appropriate seat to do so? I'm not familiar with the MD80 series but I assume that the crew would have their seats at the front & rear gallies and I know that their windows are quite often small & difficult to see the wing from.
By: ianatkin
- 10th October 2008 at 11:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've often wondered how it would play out if I was in the position described above.
Whenever possible I try and get a window seat near the wing and I like to watch what's going on, e.g. the control surfaces testing and the flap/slat extension. If we were taxiing out towards the runway and I noticed that the flaps were retracted, how likely is it that I'd be able to successfully get my concerns to the flight deck before they start the takeoff roll? If I started shouting and dinging the cabin crew call button during taxiing I'd probably get either restrained or ignored!
By: keltic
- 12th October 2008 at 14:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In the back jump seats, as flight attendant you can´t see the wings, nor in the front ones. Passengers simply don´t pay attention to that point, in case they do, they would probably think the captain had´nt deployed them for any reasonable explanation.
Only another pilot, or working in aviation or safety could realize about it. And what could we do if we see it?. :confused:
By: PMN
- 12th October 2008 at 19:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If I started shouting and dinging the cabin crew call button during taxiing I'd probably get either restrained or ignored!
If you're on the ground they'd probably kick you off the flight, at which point you explain why you reacted in such an extreme way. If you potentially saved the flight from going down I can't imagine you'd be in trouble for long!
Posts: 1,709
By: keltic - 5th September 2008 at 14:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Latest. A mobile on could have caused the electric malfunction, which made the alarms, didn´t sound. So, the first crash caused by a mobile?. Sounds really disturbing.
Iberia is not using MD88 any longer after the crash. Spanair planes, are checked by Iberia, whose maintenance is simply perfect.
More cancelations. A groups of passengers rioted in Spanish Salamanca Airport after the B737-800 from Air Europa, had a minor technical problem. After negotiations the airline used a A330 to take them to the destination.
Media is mixing MD series aircraft with other Boeing models. I am feeling a little bit more uneased about flying.
Posts: 1,039
By: Super Nimrod - 5th September 2008 at 20:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The Times are saying that they didn't deploy the flaps as well. Wasn't there a serious DC9 incident many years ago that was very similar, that led to various warning systems being fittted ?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article4685414.ece
Posts: 5,530
By: PMN - 5th September 2008 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hmm... I really can't imagine that scenario working in any way! Firstly, the ultimate decision to do anything lies with the Captain, and for an F/O to go against his decision probably wouldn't be a good thing (athough I'm more than willing to be corrected on that by some of you people who actually do fly these things). Secondly, even I, with my meagre knowledge, know that applying reverse thrust to just one engine on an MD-80 during the takeoff roll while the other is at takeoff thrust won't do anything other than create a situation that isn't entirely desirable. Surely the people actually flying the aircraft know that as well?!
Paul
Posts: 1,709
By: keltic - 18th September 2008 at 19:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A leak....the video of the crash has been sent to the media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmfmAGbFIE0
Huge scandal as the Ministry of Transport is leaking important information to the press before conclussions are final. The pilots from the Pilots Trade Unions who were participating in the comission has withdrawn considering that this is not serious for a civilized country.
Posts: 90
By: eu typhoon - 19th September 2008 at 08:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Video quickly removed but the BBC news site today carried some clips
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7624405.stm
Posts: 732
By: TRIDENT MAN - 19th September 2008 at 14:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Here is a longer version,you can see the aircraft dropping to the ground.................
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a44_1221765160
Posts: 8,847
By: Newforest - 10th October 2008 at 09:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Confirming Super Nimrod's post, non operation of the flaps together with the lack of an audible warning of their non-operation was the cause of the accident although the official report will not be issued for many months.
One would wonder whether any of the cabin crew could have noticed that the flaps had not been deployed?:confused:
http://news.theage.com.au/world/faulty-flaps-caused-spanair-plane-crash-20081010-4xtn.html
Posts: 1,995
By: tomfellows - 10th October 2008 at 10:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
That would probably be logical, but would the cabin crew be seated in an appropriate seat to do so? I'm not familiar with the MD80 series but I assume that the crew would have their seats at the front & rear gallies and I know that their windows are quite often small & difficult to see the wing from.
Posts: 102
By: ianatkin - 10th October 2008 at 11:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I've often wondered how it would play out if I was in the position described above.
Whenever possible I try and get a window seat near the wing and I like to watch what's going on, e.g. the control surfaces testing and the flap/slat extension. If we were taxiing out towards the runway and I noticed that the flaps were retracted, how likely is it that I'd be able to successfully get my concerns to the flight deck before they start the takeoff roll? If I started shouting and dinging the cabin crew call button during taxiing I'd probably get either restrained or ignored!
Ian
Posts: 1,709
By: keltic - 12th October 2008 at 14:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
In the back jump seats, as flight attendant you can´t see the wings, nor in the front ones. Passengers simply don´t pay attention to that point, in case they do, they would probably think the captain had´nt deployed them for any reasonable explanation.
Only another pilot, or working in aviation or safety could realize about it. And what could we do if we see it?. :confused:
Posts: 5,530
By: PMN - 12th October 2008 at 19:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If you're on the ground they'd probably kick you off the flight, at which point you explain why you reacted in such an extreme way. If you potentially saved the flight from going down I can't imagine you'd be in trouble for long!
Paul
Posts: 8,847
By: Newforest - 19th August 2009 at 15:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Human error and a technical fault are the conclusions of the official investigation into the Madrid crash.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1207462/Human-error-technical-fault-blamed-Spanair-crash-killed-154.html
Posts: 10,160
By: Grey Area - 19th August 2009 at 15:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Moderator Message
Thanks for updating us, Newforest.
Any further discussion on a new thread, please.
Thanks
GA