By: Super Nimrod
- 4th June 2009 at 13:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The rain or hail flooding the engines is also unlikely. Engines are now tested for this and a truly enormous amount of water is run through them on a test rig, apparently its much more than they would ever likely see in flight even in the worst conditions.
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By: old shape
- 4th June 2009 at 13:37Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The rain or hail flooding the engines is also unlikely. Engines are now tested for this and a truly enormous amount of water is run through them on a test rig, apparently its much more than they would ever likely see in flight even in the worst conditions.
Correct.
And, rain and hail are by default below the clouds. The sort of clouds at 30k are made of tiny ice crystals which do not form together to make bigger ice crystals.
By: AvgasDinosaur
- 4th June 2009 at 16:17Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am not speculating, but seeking knowledge. I believe two German Air Force Tornados crashed as a result of flying too close to a commercial radio transmitter. Given the intensity of the lightening in this area does anyone know of the possible EMP effect of severe lightning discharges either +ve or -ve. Has any research ever been carried out into this possible phenomenon? I understand that EMP protection is a major concern with the military versions of the A330 currently under development.
Thanks in anticipation for your time and trouble,
Be lucky
David
By: kevinwm
- 4th June 2009 at 16:22Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Reading one of the dailys seem that AFR recivied a Bomb Threat to this Flight only 4 days ago and one of AFR Pilots has been quoted as saying for so many failures to be record at the same time It could only point to a bomb
By: Dan380
- 4th June 2009 at 16:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Reading one of the dailys seem that AFR recivied a Bomb Threat to this Flight only 4 days ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that flight was from Buenos Aires. The only link was it was an Air France plane running a south america - CDG route. It was discussed briefly a few pages back.
Still, I think it is a definite line of enquiry for the AAIB (or whatever the French version is).
By: fft
- 4th June 2009 at 17:05Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are all the Airbus air-crafts un-flyble in the event of a total electrical failure (due to the loss of fly-by-wire mechanism).
Is'nt the fly-by-wire system in modern airliners just for pilot-aid (keeping the AC with in boundaries of safe maneuvering). It's failure should not render the AC in-operable per se.
Whats the difference between B747 and modern aircraft in this regard ?
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By: old shape
- 4th June 2009 at 17:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am not speculating, but seeking knowledge. I believe two German Air Force Tornados crashed as a result of flying too close to a commercial radio transmitter. Given the intensity of the lightening in this area does anyone know of the possible EMP effect of severe lightning discharges either +ve or -ve. Has any research ever been carried out into this possible phenomenon? I understand that EMP protection is a major concern with the military versions of the A330 currently under development.
Thanks in anticipation for your time and trouble,
Be lucky
David
The sort of EMP the military are worried about on A330 is from a whizz-bang nuke detonation.
By: Bmused55
- 4th June 2009 at 17:09Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are all the Airbus air-crafts un-flyble in the event of a total electrical failure (due to the loss of fly-by-wire mechanism).
Is'nt the fly-by-wire system in modern airliners just for pilot-aid (keeping the AC with in boundaries of safe maneuvering). It's failure should not render the AC in-operable per se.
Whats the difference between B747 and modern aircraft in this regard ?
A ram air turbine should deploy upon loss of all power to provide enough power for the flight controls and essential systems.
From what I understand, there is no mechanical linkage between the pilots and the control surfaces on the A320/A330/A340/A380.
By: Grey Area
- 4th June 2009 at 17:27Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the 777 still has cables, as a last ditch back up.
The 787 I think will be completely cableless
Oh, right.
I was under the impression that the B777 had a completely electronic FBW system with a manual over-ride, but no mechanical back-up.
Boeing seem to under a similar impression. (Third bullet point up from the bottom)
Is it safe ?
Depends on what you mean.
If you mean "Is there a 100% guarantee that there are no circumstances, forseeable or otherwise, in which this triple-redundant system will ever fail?" then the answer is "No", just as it is for every single system or mechanism conceived and built by the mind and hand of Man.
If, on the other hand, you mean "Is there, statistically speaking, considerably more chance of me reaching my destination safe and sound in one of these aircraft than in a car or in a train?" then the answer is "Yes".
Mechanically-controlled aircraft crash all the time, you know.
By: kevinwm
- 4th June 2009 at 17:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
whilst at the everett plant we were told it would be a will FBW system for both T7 and The 787 , same with the new generation 737, as it is now a very hard task to get control cabels for the older 737 ie 300,400 and 500 series
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By: Super Nimrod - 4th June 2009 at 13:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The rain or hail flooding the engines is also unlikely. Engines are now tested for this and a truly enormous amount of water is run through them on a test rig, apparently its much more than they would ever likely see in flight even in the worst conditions.
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape - 4th June 2009 at 13:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Correct.
And, rain and hail are by default below the clouds. The sort of clouds at 30k are made of tiny ice crystals which do not form together to make bigger ice crystals.
Posts: 305
By: AvgasDinosaur - 4th June 2009 at 16:17 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I am not speculating, but seeking knowledge. I believe two German Air Force Tornados crashed as a result of flying too close to a commercial radio transmitter. Given the intensity of the lightening in this area does anyone know of the possible EMP effect of severe lightning discharges either +ve or -ve. Has any research ever been carried out into this possible phenomenon? I understand that EMP protection is a major concern with the military versions of the A330 currently under development.
Thanks in anticipation for your time and trouble,
Be lucky
David
Posts: 1,105
By: kevinwm - 4th June 2009 at 16:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Reading one of the dailys seem that AFR recivied a Bomb Threat to this Flight only 4 days ago and one of AFR Pilots has been quoted as saying for so many failures to be record at the same time It could only point to a bomb
Posts: 377
By: Dan380 - 4th June 2009 at 16:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that flight was from Buenos Aires. The only link was it was an Air France plane running a south america - CDG route. It was discussed briefly a few pages back.
Still, I think it is a definite line of enquiry for the AAIB (or whatever the French version is).
Posts: 10,160
By: Grey Area - 4th June 2009 at 16:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You are entirely correct.
A different flight from a different country. South America is a big place.
Posts: 291
By: fft - 4th June 2009 at 17:05 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Are all the Airbus air-crafts un-flyble in the event of a total electrical failure (due to the loss of fly-by-wire mechanism).
Is'nt the fly-by-wire system in modern airliners just for pilot-aid (keeping the AC with in boundaries of safe maneuvering). It's failure should not render the AC in-operable per se.
Whats the difference between B747 and modern aircraft in this regard ?
Posts: 2,101
By: old shape - 4th June 2009 at 17:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The sort of EMP the military are worried about on A330 is from a whizz-bang nuke detonation.
Posts: 10,625
By: Bmused55 - 4th June 2009 at 17:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
A ram air turbine should deploy upon loss of all power to provide enough power for the flight controls and essential systems.
From what I understand, there is no mechanical linkage between the pilots and the control surfaces on the A320/A330/A340/A380.
Posts: 10,160
By: Grey Area - 4th June 2009 at 17:19 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sandy is correct.
I think the same is true of the B777 and the B787, though I'm happy to be corrected.
Posts: 291
By: fft - 4th June 2009 at 17:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Is it safe ? A hydraulic mechanical mechanism with a "completely" independent power source should be there.
By independent power mechanism, I mean a small power generator (with its own fuel tank).
I understand that there is a secondary APU for power generation, but there should be 3 layers of protection.
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By: Bmused55 - 4th June 2009 at 17:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think the 777 still has cables, as a last ditch back up.
The 787 I think will be completely cableless
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By: Bmused55 - 4th June 2009 at 17:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
For fear of a flame war, I'm biting my tongue!
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By: Grey Area - 4th June 2009 at 17:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Oh, right.
I was under the impression that the B777 had a completely electronic FBW system with a manual over-ride, but no mechanical back-up.
Boeing seem to under a similar impression. (Third bullet point up from the bottom)
Depends on what you mean.
If you mean "Is there a 100% guarantee that there are no circumstances, forseeable or otherwise, in which this triple-redundant system will ever fail?" then the answer is "No", just as it is for every single system or mechanism conceived and built by the mind and hand of Man.
If, on the other hand, you mean "Is there, statistically speaking, considerably more chance of me reaching my destination safe and sound in one of these aircraft than in a car or in a train?" then the answer is "Yes".
Mechanically-controlled aircraft crash all the time, you know.
Posts: 291
By: fft - 4th June 2009 at 17:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
strange.........
Is there something wrong with giving one's honest opinion, especially when it is a matter of human safety.
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By: Bmused55 - 4th June 2009 at 17:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I did say "I think" ;)
Obviously I thought incorrectly.
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By: Grey Area - 4th June 2009 at 17:37 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Happens to the best of us, mate. :)
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By: Bmused55 - 4th June 2009 at 17:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Let's just say I'm not entirely convinced that A320 crash at Habsheim was solely down to the pilot.
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By: Grey Area - 4th June 2009 at 17:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Moderator Message
We are not opening that can of worms again here!
Somehow it just doesn't seem right when 228 people have just lost their lives.
GA
Posts: 1,105
By: kevinwm - 4th June 2009 at 17:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
whilst at the everett plant we were told it would be a will FBW system for both T7 and The 787 , same with the new generation 737, as it is now a very hard task to get control cabels for the older 737 ie 300,400 and 500 series