AF447 (Merged)

Profile picture for user Rickt

Member for

13 years 8 months

Posts: 552

http://www.ohio-share.coxnewsweb.com/News-share/nation-world/plane-debris-found-in-path-air-france-jet-took-143379.html

The debris was spotted from the air about 410 miles (650 kilometers) north of the Brazilian island of Fernando de Noronha, roughly along the path that the jet was taking before it disappeared with 228 people on board, said Air Force spokesman Jorge Amaral.

There were no signs of life in two sightings of separate debris areas about 60 kilometers (35 miles) apart.

"The locations where the objects were found are towards the right of the point where the last signal of the plane was emitted,"

If the above is correct, debris found 35 miles apart means the search area is massive.

http://www.flugrevue.de/fm/3/Karte_Brasilien_Fund_Neu.jpg

Jpeg taken from - http://www.flugrevue.de/de/zivilluftfahrt/airlines-flugbetrieb/suche-nach-airbus-a330-von-air-france-im-suedatlantik-wrackteile-entdeckt.11025.htm

Lets hope the investigators and search teams find the aircraft as soon as possible for the family members and friends sake.

RIP

Rick

Profile picture for user Pondskater

Member for

13 years 8 months

Posts: 803

But surely that's the point? None of you are experts! I fail to see how this kind of discussion on what happened is useful to anyone other than for the entertainment of those taking part.

I share your disquiet Kev. You might be more comfortable reading the thread over of Pprune. There are a number of Airbus drivers over there discussing what might have happened, discussing risks and how they can be reduced. In their case, that is a professional safety discussion which might help us all next time we're on one of their flights

When something terrible happens people need to talk. Discussing how to be safer or the chance to share the latest information (or indeed speculation) from official sources such as Air France are two reasons for having such threads. I can do without uninformed speculation.

Profile picture for user Bmused55

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 10,625

No one is forcing you to read this thread

Profile picture for user PMN

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 5,530

No one is forcing you to read this thread

I have to say, I don't often agree with you but I agree entirely with that. The time people have spent whinging about the content of this thread could have been spent hitting the 'back' button and going elsewhere if it's so much of a problem. I'm seeing more people expressing heartfelt concern and upset at this tragic event than I am 'armchair experts' blurting out mindless speculation.

Paul

Member for

11 years

Posts: 50

Shamrock,

Your post #121 has a map attached (rather than linked to) that you say was handed out to journalists by the Brazilian Air Force.

Are you a journalist, by any chance?

No, not a journalist at all...it's in all the main online versions of the British press such as Telegraph, Mail, Sun, Express et al. Also on many of the mainland European/South American press too.

Member for

11 years

Posts: 50

On the BBC website they have similar reports regarding wreckage but won't confirm it is that of the 330 due to the size of whats there and the spread compared to the size of the plane.....which, and I dare say someone with a physics background can say yay or nay here...if the plane went down from FL350 at or around 500mph the pieces would be, relatively speaking, tiny and unlike on land, the spread could well be small?

Air force spokesman Col Jorge Amaral said the seat had been spotted by search planes early on Tuesday.

There were also small white pieces of debris, material that may be metallic and signs of oil and kerosene, which is used as jet fuel.

"The search is continuing because it's very little material in relation to the size [of the Airbus A330],"Col Amaral added.

Officials, he said, needed "a piece that might have a serial number, some sort of identification" to be sure it came from the missing jet.

......further down the article...

Col Amaral was quoted by the Associated Press as saying a life jacket had been spotted amid the debris.

"The locations where the objects were found are towards the right of the point where the last signal of the plane was emitted," he told reporters in Rio.

"That suggests that it might have tried to make a turn, maybe to return to Fernando de Noronha, but that is just a hypothesis."

Searchers now planned to focus their efforts on collecting the debris and trying to identify it, he said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8079122.stm

Profile picture for user kevinwm

Member for

15 years 11 months

Posts: 1,105

I think that we should talk about this as it may affect all of us who fly , wither as professionals or as passengers
Everything that is discussed is of uniformed opion, noboby knows the true facts, what we have is speculation from the media
all we are doing is puting forward sugestions to what might have happened
I have my own theory and other have theirs ,
This is not intertainment and if anyone who thinks it is , is either very twisted or sick

Kevin(flying across the atlantic today)

Member for

11 years

Posts: 50

Well, no-one can say that Air France are not trying to be there for the families and friends affected by this tragedy. An announcement has been posted onto their main website in both English & French...

Paris, 02 June 2009 - 14:20 local time
Press release N° 10
Homage to victims in Paris

An inter-religious ceremony for the relatives and friends of the victims will be held on Wednesday 3 June at 4pm at Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris.

Note for media: practical information will be sent later.

http://www.airfrance.com/indexCOM.html

The airline are reacting very quickly and in my view very sympathetically towards everyone concerned in this and are themselves struggling to come to terms with what has happened.

Kudos to them for how they are behaving. They took alot of flack in the aftermath of the non fatal Toronto Pearson accident a few years ago in respect to post accident organisation, and as an outsider looking in, they do genuinely seem to be trying their best to be as supportive as they can, afterall they too lost employees, 'friends'.

I do hope, however, that the media do not turn the memorial service into some sort of ghoulish spectacle and that they give those who are in such unimaginable grief the utmost respect at this incredibly tough time.

Member for

11 years

Posts: 50

A Brazilian newspaper has now published names of passengers who were on board the flight, some of whom were working for companies such as Michelin, ThyssenKrupp CSA.

O voo AF 447 decolou por volta das 19h de domingo do aeroporto do Galeão (Tom Jobim) e deveria pousar no aeroporto Charles de Gaulle, em Paris, por volta das 11h local (6h de Brasília). O último contato com o comando aéreo brasileiro ocorreu por volta das 22h30.

Em nota, a empresa afirma que a aeronave "cruzou uma zona com forte turbulência" por volta das 23h (horário de Brasília) e enviou alerta automático sobre problemas no circuito elétrico às 23h14.

Os nomes confirmados até agora são:

* Adriana Francisco Van Sluijs, 40, da área de comunicação corporativa da Petrobras
* Agostino Cordioli, 73, empresário italiano da região de Verona. Viajou a negócios para Fortaleza
* Aisling Butler, 26, médica irlandesa
* Alexander Paulitsch, 35, consultor comercial italiano de San Candido (Bolzano)
* Ana Carolina Rodrigues, 28, integrante da ONG Viva Rio
* Ana Negra, 28, espanhola
* Andrés Suárez Montes, 38, engenheiro espanhol que trabalhava no Brasil
* Angela Cristina de Oliveira Silva, responsável por uma organização internacional de orientação e defesa da mulher estrangeira com projetos no Brasil, Itália, Nigéria e Espanha. Vive em Veneza com o marido italiano
* Antonio Gueiros, diretor de informática da Michelin
* Bianca Machado Cotta
* Carlos Eduardo Macário de Melo, recém-casado com Bianca
* Christin Pieraerts, funcionária da unidade Paris da Michelin
* Claudia Degli Esposti, 55, italiana, responsável pela área de marketing de uma empresa. Retornava de uma feira do setor têxtil no Paraná
* Deise Possamai, 34, funcionária da prefeitura de Criciúma
* Eithne Walls, médica irlandesa
* Enzo Canaletti, italiano, marido de Angela Cristina de Oliveira Silva, militar reformado do Exército italiano, vivia na região de Veneza
* Erich Heine, presidente da ThyssenKrupp CSA - Companhia Siderúrgica do Atlântico
* Francisco Eudes Mesquita Valle, viajou ao lado do filho, da mulher e da nora
* Georg Lercher, 34, empresário italiano do setor florestal de San Candido (Bolzano). Viajou ao Brasil com amigo Alexander Paulitsch em férias.
* Georg Martiner, 24, de origem brasileira, foi adotado com dois irmãos por uma família italiana de Ortisei (Bolzano)
* Giovanni Batista Lenzi, deputado da Província Autônoma de Trento
* Gustavo Peretti, 30, brasileiro, funcionário da petrolífera norueguesa StatoilHydro.
* Harald Maximillian Winner, 44, alemão que iria providenciar documentos para se casar
* Hilton Jadir Silveira de Souza, 50, engenheiro da Petrobras que viajou a trabalho
* Izabela Maria Furtado Kestler, professora de alemão da UFRJ
* Isis, francesa, mulher de José Ronnel Amorim
* Jane Deasy, médica irlandesa
* João Marques da Silva Filho, 67, gerente de interface do Estaleiro Atlântico Sul
* José Roberto Gomes, 50, professor de administração da PUC-RJ
* José Ronnel Amorim, casado com Isis
* Juliana Aquino, 29, cantora, mora na Alemanha e passava férias com a família em Brasília
* Kristian Berg Andersen, 37, norueguês, também funcionário da petrolífera norueguesa StatoilHydro.
* Koo Hak-rim, 40, sul-coreano
* Leonardo Veloso Dardengo, 31, oceanógrafo e doutorando da Coppe/UFRJ
* Letícia Chem, 36, gerente de roaming internacional da operadora Oi
* Luciana Clarkson Sebá, psicóloga no Rio, viajou ao lado do marido, Paulo Valle Brito, e dos sogros
* Luigi Zortea, prefeito de Canal San Bovo, em Trento (Itália)
* Luis Cláudio Monlevad, 48, funcionário da empresa de tubulações Saint-Gobain
* Luiz Roberto Anastácio, presidente da Michelin para a América do Sul
* Marcela Marques Pellizzon, 29, geóloga; viajava para fazer curso na Noruega e era funcionária da petrolífera norueguesa StatoilHydro.
* Marcelo Parente, 38, chefe de gabinete do prefeito do Rio, Eduardo Paes (PMDB)
* Marcos Mendonça, diretor de manganês da Vale
* Marcia Moscon de Faria, funcionária da Vara da Infância, Juventude e Idoso na Praça Onze do Tribunal de Justiça do Rio
* Maria de Fátima Brito, arquiteta, viajou ao lado do marido, do filho e da nora
* Mateus Nazareth Ceva Antunes, 3, filho de Octavio e Patricia, também no voo
* Mulher de Marcelo Parente, cujo nome não foi confirmado
* Martin, 29, médico alemão em férias no Brasil
* Nelson Marinho Filho, 40, mecânico de engrenagens
* Octavio Augusto Ceva Antunes, professor do Instituto de Química da UFRJ
* Pablo Dreyfus, 38, argentino integrante da ONG Viva Rio
* Patricia Nazareth Antunes, viajava com o marido, Octavio, professor da UFRJ
* Paulo Valle Brito, empresário, viajou ao lado da mulher, Luciana Sebá, e dos pais
* príncipe Pedro Luis de Orleans e Bragança, 26, descendente de dom Pedro 2º
* Rino Zandonai, diretor da Associazione Trentini Nel Mondo
* Roberto Corrêa Chem, 66, cirurgião plástico e professor universitário
* Silvio Barbato, ex-diretor artístico da Orquestra Sinfônica do Teatro Nacional
* Simone Jacomo dos Santos Elias, funcionária da Vara da Infância, Juventude e Idoso na Praça Onze do Tribunal de Justiça do Rio
* Sonia Maria Amorim, 40, funcionária da Vara da Infância, Juventude e Idoso na Praça Onze do Tribunal de Justiça do Rio
* Valnilzia Betler, 44, casada com um alemão
* Vera Chem, 63, psicóloga, casada com Roberto Chem

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u574778.shtml

Yesterday it was brought into stark reality when it was announced by Air France that there had been 32 nationalities on the plane, now as the names are slowly being released by their respective countries the true human toll of this accident just makes you shudder.

:(

[quote]

Profile picture for user Pondskater

Member for

13 years 8 months

Posts: 803

I suggest two ways threads such as this can help and one thing that I dislike and I get told to go away. Curious response.

Anyway, here's some fact-based analysis of the met conditions and how it may have affected the flight:

http://www.weathergraphics.com/tim/af447/

Profile picture for user Grey Area

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 10,160

Moderator Message

Shamrock,

Seeing as you're not a journalist, would you mind giving the lengthy cut-and-pastes a rest, please?

A summary and a URL link is an elegant sufficiency, as Pondskater so ably demonstrates.

That goes for the rest of you, too!

Thanks

GA

Profile picture for user J Boyle

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 9,679

Here's an example of the media stating the obvious... a new headline from the CNN webpage:

Air France: Missing plane probably crashed into Atlantic

Profile picture for user Bmused55

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 10,625

I just had a throught after reading that article. What if there was some sort of electrical problem? And that the FDR and CVR lost power before the aircraft met its fate. If so, they might not reveal a bloomin thing.

Speculation perhaps, but not without precedence.

Profile picture for user kevinwm

Member for

15 years 11 months

Posts: 1,105

I just had a throught after reading that article. What if there was some sort of electrical problem? And that the FDR and CVR lost power before the aircraft met its fate. If so, they might not reveal a bloomin thing.

Speculation perhaps, but not without precedence.

I belive both have a sperate battery supply , just incase of a main electrical failure, so should have recorded right up to the last few seconds
with reports of 2 wreckage araes located Im assuming that this aircraft has broken up in flight

Profile picture for user Pondskater

Member for

13 years 8 months

Posts: 803

And the ACARS system was powered when it sent the maintenance messages giving the evidence of faults developing.

Profile picture for user Bmused55

Member for

16 years 7 months

Posts: 10,625

How eerie is that. The very last thing this airplane may have done is send that ACARS report that something was afoot.

Member for

14 years

Posts: 168

I belive both have a sperate battery supply , just incase of a main electrical failure, so should have recorded right up to the last few seconds
with reports of 2 wreckage araes located Im assuming that this aircraft has broken up in flight

Has the wiring been redesigned since AA191? because when the engine came of that power was lost to the CVR?

a quote on the BBC news website made me laugh, surely they musn't have heard about the security regulations after 9/11:


On the air traffic controllers' forum Stuck Mic, Caminito speculates about the disappearance of the plane:
Could it be possible that the aircraft was kidnapped by aviation knowledgeable people, forced the crew to send the "automatic" message and then continued in silence to land somewhere in the enormous Amazonas region or in Africa?

it makes you wonder though if the aircraft is designed to send messages to maintenance when there is a technical problem in flight, why isn't it programmed to send position data every 30 seconds or so overwriting the previous position data, then when the next one isn't recieved its left with the position of the aircraft no more than 30 seconds before the accident?

Member for

11 years

Posts: 50

Tenuous...I know...three of the passengers listed above are members of the Courts of Justice in Rio de Janeiro, they do not appear to be related but are all involved in children's type services.

The French are not completely dismissing terrorism with this incident, and Rio does have more than the average amount of 'domestic problems'.

Is it possible that someone could have had a grudge against the Rio de Janeiro justice system, especially in the child services section, that they would purposely sabotage an airliner?

People have sabotaged planes before, afterall.

Profile picture for user PMN

Member for

14 years 9 months

Posts: 5,530

Is it possible that someone could have had a grudge against the Rio de Janeiro justice system, especially in the child services section, that they would purposely sabotage an airliner?

People have sabotaged planes before, afterall.

Don't you think speculating such things is somewhat inappropriate at the moment?

Paul