AF447 (Merged)

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11 years

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Don't you think speculating such things is somewhat inappropriate at the moment?

Paul

I did say 'tenuous'.

Profile picture for user Dan380

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12 years 4 months

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with reports of 2 wreckage araes located Im assuming that this aircraft has broken up in flight

I drew the same conclusion from that. It would make sense given the deprussurisation messages that the plane broke up, perhaps not instantly, mid-flight.
That's a harrowing thought. I really hope I'm wrong.

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I did say 'tenuous'.

And? To even consider it as a possibility at this early stage is utterly ridiculous!

Paul

Profile picture for user Dan380

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12 years 4 months

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I think we might be going a bit too far to speculate who might want to blow up AF447 or why they might want to. Lets keep it to possible causes, and not point the finger at any one.

However saying that, the evidence of scattered debris would be synonymous with an explosion on board. I don't wish to speculate about that much further, as I also feel that would be innapropriatte at this time.

Profile picture for user Rickt

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The French are not completely dismissing terrorism with this incident, and Rio does have more than the average amount of 'domestic problems'.

I am in no way speculating but stating what appears to be a fact.

One thing which I am surprised about is the media has not reported the incident which occurred on the 27th May 2009 at Ezeiza Airport in Argentina. - The only link is Air France and the destination of Paris.

Posted on 27 May 2009 at 16:27 -- momento24.com
The airport safety delayed an Air France flight this evening before departing for Paris immediately after the company received a bomb threat over the phone at the airport of Ezeiza.

The Federal Police, along the Firemen’s direction and the Airport’s Safety proceeded to inspect the plane, that arrived this morning from the French city and, after a brief stop, it was preparing to return.

The routine procedure lasted approximately one hour and a half and, as sources of the airport reported all the passengers are ok and they were not evacuated.

SOURCE - http://momento24.com/en/2009/05/27/bomb-threat-on-air-france-flight/

Remember, im only stating the report above, not speculating anything.

Cheers

Rick

Profile picture for user J Boyle

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Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that there is a gap in the South Atlantic radar coverage?

I find the comment made on the BBC website and posted here by Homer09001 weird
(it would be funny if the situation weren't so tragic) suggesting the plane crossed the coast and is hiding in the Amazon or Africa....I would have thought that anyone with enough intelligence to use a computer should realize that radar does exist outside Europe.

Profile picture for user Rickt

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Apologies in advance for posting so many links to news sites etc.. As you may of guessed, i have been reading reports online from around the world and posting my findings as i have gone along hoping it may give other members an insight to what is been reported from around the globe.

I have just found the below on Sky News.

It details Air France Flight A447. The Last 4 Minutes. - The link provides information regarding what messages where sent from the aircraft before the disappearance.

SOURCE -- http://blogs.news.sky.com/foreignmatters/Post:0fc148fa-4542-4246-99e7-c0a8824562e6#comment -- As the source is from a blog post by a member of the SKY NEWS team, please remember this has not been released as a fact.

Below is a snippet to give you an idea of link content.


Tim Marshall - Sky news
June 02, 2009 5:07 PM

I've just got this from someone I trust. It originates within Air France. Translation below;

'The ACARS messages of system failures began to arrive at 02:10Z. Indication was that the
autopilot had disengaged and the fly by wire system had changed to alternate law. Between 02:11Z and 02:13Z a flurry of messages regarding ADIRU and ISIS faults arrived. At 02:13Z PRIM 1 and SEC 1 faults were indicated, at 02:14Z the last message received was an advisory regarding cabin vertical speed."

Rick

Profile picture for user Grey Area

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Has the wiring been redesigned since AA191? because when the engine came of that power was lost to the CVR?

AA191 was a DC-10. This was an A330. Completely different aircraft, made on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

Is it possible that someone could have had a grudge against the Rio de Janeiro justice system, especially in the child services section, that they would purposely sabotage an airliner?

People have sabotaged planes before, afterall.

People have posted utter twaddle on Internet forums before, too.

Come to think of it, they still do......

Profile picture for user J Boyle

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AA191 was a DC-10. This was an A330. Completely different aircraft, made on opposite sides of the Atlantic.

And designed about 30 years apart!

Profile picture for user Grey Area

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And designed about 30 years apart!

I was holding that one back, just in case. :cool:

Profile picture for user MishaThePenguin

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Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that there is a gap in the South Atlantic radar coverage?

I find the comment made on the BBC website and posted here by Homer09001 weird
(it would be funny if the situation weren't so tragic) suggesting the plane crossed the coast and is hiding in the Amazon or Africa....I would have thought that anyone with enough intelligence to use a computer should realize that radar does exist outside Europe.

But possibly not in the middle of the Atlantic. Shortly after you leave the coast of Brazil you are out of range of radar until you get near to the coast of Africa. Not sure this is confined to the South Atlantic - I believe this is the case in the North Atlantic too - though stand to be corrected.

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Sadly the Brazilian Government have confirmed the debris that was spotted in the sea of the Brazilian coast is without doubt that of AF447.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8080290.stm

Lets just hope that the CVR and FDR are recovered and the facts are brought to light to prevent this happening again.

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Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that there is a gap in the South Atlantic radar coverage?

Not when you consider radar is pretty much 'line of sight', so it goes as far as the horizon over water and that's it. I imagine it would be pretty much impossible to cover such a vast expanse of nothing with conventional radar because you'd probably need another system every 200 miles or so (almost like mobile phone cells on a bigger scale). At least that's how I understand it anyway!

Paul

Profile picture for user Bmused55

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Am I the only one who's a bit surprised that there is a gap in the South Atlantic radar coverage?

I think so ;)

As far as I am aware, there is a gap in the North Atlantic too, due to the curvature of the earth.

Profile picture for user Giblets

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Would the change in flight rules change the way the computer reacted compared to the Qantas flight?(despite if acting of its own volition)

What are the other types of warning message the aircraft can give off? (engine malfunction, depressurisation etc)? This would obviously help in narrowing down the options.

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Posts: 147

I think so ;)

As far as I am aware, there is a gap in the North Atlantic too, due to the curvature of the earth.

As far as curvature of earth is concerned that should not be a problem , especially over the water. Radar blind zone due to curvature of the earth goes as follows ...at100Km radar blind zone will be 0m - 100m , at 200Km it will be 0m - 200m , so at 1000Km it will be 1000m.Since airliners are normally flying at anything between 9.5 Km to 11Km altitude , that means in order not to be seen by radar due to earth curvature they would have to be anything between 9500 Km to 11000 Km from the radar station and that is not the case.
Radar blind zone is due to radar not being powerful enough to see that far .For example , one of the most powerful Air Search radars like Russian P-14 can see up to 1500 Km , but here we are talking about massive radar station with massive antenna .Now I do not know what type of the radar is in use in that area but typically Air Traffic radars have range up to 400 km.

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As far as curvature of earth is concerned that should not be a problem , especially over the water. Radar blind zone due to curvature of the earth goes as follows ...at100Km radar blind zone will be 0m - 100m , at 200Km it will be 0m - 200m , so at 1000Km it will be 1000m.Since airliners are normally flying at anything between 9.5 Km to 11Km altitude , that means in order not to be seen by radar due to earth curvature they would have to be anything between 9500 Km to 11000 Km from the radar station and that is not the case.
Radar blind zone is due to radar not being powerful enough to see that far .For example , one of the most powerful Air Search radars like Russian P-14 can see up to 1500 Km , but here we are talking about massive radar station with massive antenna .Now I do not know what type of the radar is in use in that area but typically Air Traffic radars have range up to 400 km.

I am not a specialist in radars (far from it, not in the tech world) but it seems to me that the radar cover is an issue of need rather than a technical one. Beyond/over the horizon radar are nothing new. They have been used for decades as part of early warning systems against balistic missiles and enable to track targets as far away as needed.

They have not been used for the civilian airline industry because, in all likelihood, it was not deemed necessary to have a constant view of all planes at all times over the vast and empty expanses of the ocean.