Bored of Trimming!

Member for

13 years 1 month

Posts: 4

Hi, The one thing that spoils the enjoyment of FS2004 for me is the constant need to trim for altitude. I don't know if it is true to the real experience of flying, but using the default Cessna 172, I seem to spend all the time tapping the Home and End keys trying to achieve a stable level flight, and it can take a good five minutes to find the exact sweet spot for level flight. Then after any kind of manouvre, I need to do it all over again. Does anyone know of any tips/tricks for simplyfying this? For instance, is there a certain number od Home/End key taps to balance out x hundred feet per minute ascent/descent? Thanks Steve
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Profile picture for user Deano

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 2,623

Steve Trimming an aircraft will be required when you have a change of configuration or flight condition, so a change of power, change of weight, change of flap/gear setting etc, there is no way around this apart from throwing it on autopilot, the technique for trimming is fairly simple, to trim for the climb, you use PAT, thats set the power, then set the atittude, then trim off the control column pressure, when exiting a climb use APT, that's set the attitude, set the power, then trim, normal power settings in light aircraft will be 2350 - 2400 RPM, for a descent, you use PAT again, set the power (idle), wait for speed to bleed off (generally to 75kts) then trim for the condition, when exiting the descent use APT with the attitude & power almost becoming one, if you have a change of configuration the same applies, PAT, check the power (2350) set the attitude again (level flight) then trim off the control pressure Hope this helps Dean

Member for

13 years 1 month

Posts: 4

Thanks for the advice, Dean, I'm practising that now and I'm beginning to get a feel for the interaction between power, attitude and trim. I'd have to agree with Damien, though, that the trim control itself is infuriatingly sensitive or insensitive depending on circumstance. I'm guessing a tactile knob is what's needed to 'feel' the trim. Maybe I should get a yoke with a dedicated knob. For now, I'm actually finding it quicker to temporarily engage auto-pilot to set the trim, then disengage!

Member for

14 years 7 months

Posts: 33

It also very much depends on the artistry of whoever did the flight dynamics for the particular model. The default aircraft are good, no doubt about it, but many consider the default aircraft as "starting points" - templates, so to speak - from where to tweak to get better dynamics. There are some non-default aircraft that are take to "as real as it can get", especially when the developer/modeller has access to the real aircraft, as in the recent release by Eaglesoft Design Group of the Columbia 400.
Profile picture for user Deano

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 2,623

Very true felix, but I have found the default models terrible, they are way over-sensitive, and the payware models have better trim characteristics than the free ones for obvious reasons, I find I can just about trim for level flight ok, Steve, regardless of people's opinions, although they are very valid, if you use the techniques detailed above and you have an aweful model for trimming as damien suggests at least trimming like stated will lessen your workload. Good luck

Member for

14 years

Posts: 1,031

I was and still am a beta tester for a FS2004 Harvard that when released will be payware. Although my time on the real thing is rather limited (35 hours and all from the back seat), I found that it was extremely difficult to get the aircraft trimmed out at the correct settings ie prop, engine and manifold pressures etc. The flight model was tweaked on a number of occasions and only once through some 80 hours of test flying could I get the Harvard to trim out properly. This as in previous comments above, is the problem that we all have with the software, trimming is far from ideal and no where as easy as the real thing. I've decided not to upgrade to FSX as am happy with what I've got and if I'm to spend anything in the future it will be on the real thing and not on the simulator. Best wishes, Martin

Member for

16 years 1 month

Posts: 218

Of course, it should be remembered that trimming is something a pilot does often. Small adjustments are constantly being made (at least when I fly). I'm not saying that Flight Sim does a great job with trim (manually flying an instrument approach and staying precisely on altitude is a challenge, to say the least in FS9). Maybe make adjustments to the throttle setting for fine tuning would be a work around.
Profile picture for user Bradburger

Member for

19 years 9 months

Posts: 1,447

It also very much depends on the artistry of whoever did the flight dynamics for the particular model. The default aircraft are good, no doubt about it, but many consider the default aircraft as "starting points" - templates, so to speak - from where to tweak to get better dynamics. There are some non-default aircraft that are take to "as real as it can get", especially when the developer/modeller has access to the real aircraft, as in the recent release by Eaglesoft Design Group of the Columbia 400.
Yes that is absoulutely correct Felix. A lot of people don't relalise that whilst the default Flight Models leave a lot to be desired, the actual FM engine of the MS sims is actually very good for a sub £50 product, and can produce very realistic performing and handling aircraft. ;) Anyway, I digress. If you have a decent Force Feedback stick (a shame CH don't do an FF version of their yoke) and a decent FM, triming shouldn't be too much of a problem. Whilst you're never going to get the feel of a reel aircrafts stick or yoke, it ain't that bad! :) The new FM I did for the Cessna 182 a while back was much nicer in this respect, and could be trimmed nice and precisley. And it was nice not to have that horrible lumpiness you get from the default FM's Force Feedback! If you wan't to have a crack at doing your own FM's to fully realise the potential of the MS sims, then you should pay a visit here: http://www.mudpond.org/ Quite simply the best tools for creating FM's without having to have a degree in aeronautics and the MS FM engine! :D Cheers Paul
Profile picture for user corporalfrank

Member for

13 years 7 months

Posts: 62

I learned a lot about flying FS2002 using the Cessna 182 Nav Trainer available at http://www.navfltsm.addr.com/index.htm It has digital readout elevator trimming and is very easy to use. Cheers Frank