By: J Boyle
- 15th June 2010 at 05:08Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I think you are the winner.....it is a T44 or a U 21.....and I think the U21 is very close to the wreck.
Unless I've missed something, why do you think it's a US military aircraft?
Non-US military operators included: Algeria, Israel, Spain, plus several central and South American countries...which would not likely be found where you are.
And to point you back to my thread, T-44s were mainly used as multi-engine trainerts in the U.S. So that limits that. My records show only 48 were built and most are still in service.
It doen't make it impossible, just less likely.
Also, as of 1995, 1900+ Beech 90s have been built...plus more since then, so it certainly could be a civil aircraft.
And unlesss you're sure it only has one mainwheel, you're also looking at the possibilIty of it being a Beech 99/1900 airliner.
By: Seawreck
- 15th June 2010 at 09:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unless I've missed something, why do you think it's a US military aircraft?
Non-US military operators included: Algeria, Israel, Spain, plus several central and South American countries...which would not likely be found where you are.
And to point you back to my thread, T-44s were mainly used as multi-engine trainerts in the U.S. So that limits that. My records show only 48 were built and most are still in service.
It doen't make it impossible, just less likely.
Also, as of 1995, 1900+ Beech 90s have been built...plus more since then, so it certainly could be a civil aircraft.
And unlesss you're sure it only has one mainwheel, you're also looking at the possibilIty of it being a Beech 99/1900 airliner.
We acquired this information from a former engineer of the US military base at Hellinikon.
We need to check it. I am not sure that its a military version.....but a fellow diver (ex navy hellicopter engineer) verified that the configuration of some compartments proove its military ID.
Day by day and hour by hour I am more convinced that its a U-21 or a RU-21Ute.
By: Seawreck
- 15th June 2010 at 10:38Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I asked over on mil-spotters for details of any U-21 accidents involving U-21s in Europe in the 70s and apparently there were only two - this one and one in Turkey.
The US Army used a number of these for communications duties in the 1970s and a number were attached to the local US Embassy. I suspect this was one but I don't have access to my old copies of BARG to check further but I could ask Martyn Swann.
This is very close to what we are looking for !! I have the same info from a friend.....could you please check it further?
By: zoot horn rollo
- 15th June 2010 at 11:54Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
67-18112 was a RU-21A CEFERIM LEADER aircraft and I've sent an email to someone who served with the unit that operated it to try and find out more information, particularly on the colour scheme it carried and the details of its demise. I'm not that hopeful of a response in all honesty.
I've seen pictures of RU-21s still carrying the brown/white colours when they were eventually disposed off to K&K Aircraft when the mass cull took place but I've also (now) seen pictures of RU-21s carrying the overall grey colour scheme as early as 1985.
I asked on another forum for more details of 18112 but what I have posted earlier is all that came back.
One suggestion is that the entry in the ASN database is deliberately wrong to disguise its location given the sensitive nature of its duties at the time.
As I suggested earlier, the crucial markinsg to look out for is the aircraft technical data block. This is what Joe Baugher has to say about it
The three-line fuselage data block was reduced in size to one-inch characters in 1932 and placed on the left hand side of the fuselage near the cockpit. This is known as the Technical Data Block (TDB). The data block not only displayed the full serial number, but also the exact model type and sometimes the aircraft's home base or the branch of the military with which it served. The TDB eventually became the only place on the aircraft where the serial number was actually displayed. It was often true that the only other sort of identification shown was a unit and base identification code displayed on both sides of the fuselage or on the fin. This made it difficult to identify the actual serial number of the aircraft, leading to a lot of confusion.
The Technical Data Block is still in used today, although it is now called the Aircraft Data Legend, and by the early 1990s it was reduced in size to letters only 1/2 inch high and moved to a new position hear the ground refuelling receptacle.
Here is a picture on the Old Wings website showing the TDB on an old aircraft to give you an idea of what you are looking for
If this is 18112 it should carry the block under the cockpit on the port side (but remember the wreck is upside down on the sea bed)
By: Seawreck
- 20th June 2010 at 17:55Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lads,
I have some interesting news for you. Today we found the SDC (Signal Data Converter) of the aircraft with Serial number 117. The model is a CV-2924(P)/ARN-103(V).
From a quick research we found that this type of SDC is installed in to two types of aircrafts, U-21A and OV-1D. OV-1D are excluded since they do not match with the wreck.
Do you think that we found something valuable???
PS: Some more data that we found on the label are the following
MFR 82260 US
PN:8010000232-1
Contr DAAB07-72-C-009
By: Bmused55
- 20th June 2010 at 19:58Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The U-21A is a military King Air, putting it simply.
I think someone with access to the right database might even be able to identify what aicraft that unit was last known to be installed on. Thus helping us identify the plane.
By: zoot horn rollo
- 7th July 2010 at 17:21Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I hesitate to ask but has anything more come to light on this wreck?
New
By: Anonymous
- 7th July 2010 at 18:26Permalink- Edited 10th April 2020 at 19:36
Zoot, I think we've come quite far already. What I would like to know is what happened to the crew? Are they perhaps still in the wreck? Did they/he/she/it survive?
By: aetosjm
- 9th July 2010 at 18:12Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dear all,
To add a bit further to this thread I have to tell you that there is an article on the Daily press of Athens and in particular in the news paper "TA NEA" (The News) of July 25, 1985 that is referred to an American plane that forced to ditch due to mecanical failur 13 mils from Athens APT at 7pm. The a/c was part of a three plane flight that was coming from NATO base of Aviano, Italy.
The three crew members had to swim until they were rescued.
New
By: Anonymous
- 9th July 2010 at 19:53Permalink- Edited 10th April 2020 at 19:36
Good sleuthing mate. :)
New
Posts: 10
By: me-262
- 10th July 2010 at 01:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is what we found.....
As you can see its crystal clear that it cant be a Beechcraft since there is no such a cockpit desin for these aircrafts.
wow crystal clear wow i can not see it that way it is too hard for me to id tha aircraft
Posts: 2,318
By: TEEJ - 14th June 2010 at 23:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No problem, Seawreck.
TJ
Posts: 8,505
By: mike currill - 14th June 2010 at 23:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This has been a very interesting thread so far. Please keep us updated with what happens next.
Posts: 9,823
By: J Boyle - 15th June 2010 at 05:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Unless I've missed something, why do you think it's a US military aircraft?
Non-US military operators included: Algeria, Israel, Spain, plus several central and South American countries...which would not likely be found where you are.
And to point you back to my thread, T-44s were mainly used as multi-engine trainerts in the U.S. So that limits that. My records show only 48 were built and most are still in service.
It doen't make it impossible, just less likely.
Also, as of 1995, 1900+ Beech 90s have been built...plus more since then, so it certainly could be a civil aircraft.
And unlesss you're sure it only has one mainwheel, you're also looking at the possibilIty of it being a Beech 99/1900 airliner.
Posts: 38
By: Seawreck - 15th June 2010 at 09:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
We acquired this information from a former engineer of the US military base at Hellinikon.
We need to check it. I am not sure that its a military version.....but a fellow diver (ex navy hellicopter engineer) verified that the configuration of some compartments proove its military ID.
Day by day and hour by hour I am more convinced that its a U-21 or a RU-21Ute.
Posts: 38
By: Seawreck - 15th June 2010 at 10:38 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
This is very close to what we are looking for !! I have the same info from a friend.....could you please check it further?
Posts: 1,497
By: zoot horn rollo - 15th June 2010 at 11:54 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
67-18112 was a RU-21A CEFERIM LEADER aircraft and I've sent an email to someone who served with the unit that operated it to try and find out more information, particularly on the colour scheme it carried and the details of its demise. I'm not that hopeful of a response in all honesty.
I've seen pictures of RU-21s still carrying the brown/white colours when they were eventually disposed off to K&K Aircraft when the mass cull took place but I've also (now) seen pictures of RU-21s carrying the overall grey colour scheme as early as 1985.
I asked on another forum for more details of 18112 but what I have posted earlier is all that came back.
One suggestion is that the entry in the ASN database is deliberately wrong to disguise its location given the sensitive nature of its duties at the time.
As I suggested earlier, the crucial markinsg to look out for is the aircraft technical data block. This is what Joe Baugher has to say about it
The three-line fuselage data block was reduced in size to one-inch characters in 1932 and placed on the left hand side of the fuselage near the cockpit. This is known as the Technical Data Block (TDB). The data block not only displayed the full serial number, but also the exact model type and sometimes the aircraft's home base or the branch of the military with which it served. The TDB eventually became the only place on the aircraft where the serial number was actually displayed. It was often true that the only other sort of identification shown was a unit and base identification code displayed on both sides of the fuselage or on the fin. This made it difficult to identify the actual serial number of the aircraft, leading to a lot of confusion.
The Technical Data Block is still in used today, although it is now called the Aircraft Data Legend, and by the early 1990s it was reduced in size to letters only 1/2 inch high and moved to a new position hear the ground refuelling receptacle.
Here is a picture on the Old Wings website showing the TDB on an old aircraft to give you an idea of what you are looking for
If this is 18112 it should carry the block under the cockpit on the port side (but remember the wreck is upside down on the sea bed)
Posts: 38
By: Seawreck - 20th June 2010 at 17:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Lads,
I have some interesting news for you. Today we found the SDC (Signal Data Converter) of the aircraft with Serial number 117. The model is a CV-2924(P)/ARN-103(V).
From a quick research we found that this type of SDC is installed in to two types of aircrafts, U-21A and OV-1D. OV-1D are excluded since they do not match with the wreck.
Do you think that we found something valuable???
PS: Some more data that we found on the label are the following
MFR 82260 US
PN:8010000232-1
Contr DAAB07-72-C-009
Posts: 10,625
By: Bmused55 - 20th June 2010 at 19:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The U-21A is a military King Air, putting it simply.
I think someone with access to the right database might even be able to identify what aicraft that unit was last known to be installed on. Thus helping us identify the plane.
Posts: 9,823
By: J Boyle - 21st June 2010 at 14:44 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
From the excellent Baugher web site/data base...
67-18112 Beechcraft RU-21A Ute
c/n LM.108/111. *CEFIRM Leader* DF aircraft
18112 w/o July 24, 1985.
Also listed as being LM-118 and w/o Jul 24, 1984
Posts: 1,497
By: zoot horn rollo - 7th July 2010 at 17:21 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I hesitate to ask but has anything more come to light on this wreck?
By: Anonymous - 7th July 2010 at 18:26 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2020 at 19:36
Zoot, I think we've come quite far already. What I would like to know is what happened to the crew? Are they perhaps still in the wreck? Did they/he/she/it survive?
Posts: 2
By: aetosjm - 9th July 2010 at 18:12 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Dear all,
To add a bit further to this thread I have to tell you that there is an article on the Daily press of Athens and in particular in the news paper "TA NEA" (The News) of July 25, 1985 that is referred to an American plane that forced to ditch due to mecanical failur 13 mils from Athens APT at 7pm. The a/c was part of a three plane flight that was coming from NATO base of Aviano, Italy.
The three crew members had to swim until they were rescued.
By: Anonymous - 9th July 2010 at 19:53 Permalink - Edited 10th April 2020 at 19:36
Good sleuthing mate. :)
Posts: 10
By: me-262 - 10th July 2010 at 01:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
wow crystal clear wow i can not see it that way it is too hard for me to id tha aircraft