PA-28 Landing at East Midlands Airport

Hello guys!

This is my trial flight video of the landing in Donair's PA-28 Piper Archer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZmdxxEG360

Thanks for watching!
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stangman

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13 years 5 months

Posts: 876

Cool vid thanks for posting

mike currill

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16 years 2 months

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Was it just the camera angle or was that a very flat landing? It looked as though it was almost flown on like a jet.
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EGTC

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10 years 8 months

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Nice video.

UKAVIATOR

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12 years

Posts: 43

It did seem like quite a flat approach to the runway. My concern is that the shutdown procedures were not adhere to. The cooling down procedure, in which the engine is idled for several minutes prior to shutting down was not carried out. Even on a trial flight I would have gone through the pre flight, pre landing checks and shutdown procedures with the person to give them an understanding of what was happening. I didn't hear any instructions at all for the pre landing checks, Hatches and Harnesses secure etc. .. Good video though and I am sure you enjoyed your flight.
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EGTC

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10 years 8 months

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I dunno about you, UKAVIATOR but regarding to the 'hatches and harness secure' bit, I was taught to do all that downwind - Brakes - off, undercarriage - down, Mixture - Rich, Fuel - On and sufficient, Carb heat - checked, hatches and harness - secure.
Its worked for me for the past 8yrs and was taught to me by a few different instructors.
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Deano

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16 years 2 months

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You're right EGTC. Those are the pre-landing checks conducted downwind.

As for the cooling down procedure, leave the engine running for several minutes? Who taught you this? It's a PA-28, we only allow 30 seconds in a Q400 which has been running at 660°c for the last 2hrs.
I still do instructing, and my students are always taught as per the AOM. What does it say in yours UKAVIATOR? It won't be "several" minutes that's for sure.

Olympus

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Cool video. Reminds me of the flights I made from the airport many years ago on single engine lights. Cheers for sharing and reminding of happy day's.

UKAVIATOR

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12 years

Posts: 43

Ok, I detect some hostility here. I was trained at Rogers Aviation at Cranfield by CFI Ron Campbell and Bob Walker, so I have had good training. Sadly both are no longer with us.

The rapid cooling down of an engine, this includes those filtted with turbo's or super chargers, can produce localised hotspots when there is reduced cooling, during slow flight as an example. This situation occurs when the contaminants in the engine lubrication oil become deposited on the valve stems, eventually restricting the valve movement, and resulting in intermittent engine hesitation or miss. This is known as "Coking". It blocks up the passageways, preventing oil to flow to the bearings. Exposing the engine to sudden cool down, as in a rapid descent with the power reduced, or shutting the engine down before it has sufficiently cooled down can also induce valve sticking over a period of time.

Also It would be nice to see people do Mag checks prior to shutting down an engine. I didn't see that carried out here. With regards to the downwind checks I carry these out, including the harness and hatches procedure, but also on final's. I go through that part again as some passengers in the back can't hear sometimes. i get concerned when I see procedures not being followed, they were written for a reason.

TonyT

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12 years 11 months

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It does not need to be run at idle for an extended period, it is only turbos that really need to be idled to allow sufficent cooling to happen, at a such a place as East Midlands the taxying time allows sufficent cooling to take place on none turbos, you probably wouldn't hear the checks on finals as they are both using headsets...

These aircraft do not have any engine problems with valves sticking / "coking" /cylinders and run happily to overhaul plus 20% with lots of life left in them..

It is always best to reduce power in increments so that engine temperature changes will occur gradually. It is also beneficial to continue the engine cooling process after landing by ensuring that several minutes of engine operation at 800 to 1200 RPM are allowed before shutdown. At large airports, this is usually accomplished by the time taxi to the parking area is completed. At airports where clearing the runway puts the aircraft in the parking area, a short period of additional operation in the 800 to 1200 RPM range prior to engine shutdown will allow temperatures to stabilize.


http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/tips-advice/key-reprints/pdfs/Key%20Operations.pdf

And NOTE it is NOT idling..... Idling all you will do is foul the plugs and do not push a sufficent airflow over the cylinders, it is between 800 and 1200 RPM you cool them at.
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EGTC

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10 years 8 months

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Theres no hostility, we were only asking.
Regarding to the 'hatches and harness' check, as we appear to be discussing this in the sense of GA then most of the time theres normally between 2 and 4 people in the aircraft. With that in mind, and with the way I was taught, normally you would ask everyone to make sure they are still strapped in so there shouldnt be anything misheard by the passengers.

Was Rogers aviation the company that was used in the xmas special of Some Mothers Do Ave em?

UKAVIATOR

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12 years

Posts: 43

At large airports, this is usually accomplished by the time taxi to the parking area is completed.

Usually but not always. I am not getting into a debate about engine cooling and procedures. This thread is about the video taken on a trial flight. A couple of things were noticed not just by me. Is it against site rules to not have an opinion on this forum?

Yes EGTC. Michael Crawford flew with Bob Walker with a few mounted cameras in G-BFRV - Cessna 152 Aerobat.

TonyT

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12 years 11 months

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Well aware of it's contents, thank you :)

but thank you for the exercise in learning how to suck eggs, it's been an experience LOL

Moreorless

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9 years 10 months

Posts: 99

Can we not just enjoy hamham500's trial lesson and celebrate such a wonderful way to start flying. What's all this nonsense about picking the shut down to pieces and why is it that some folk just pour cold water on people's aviation experiences UKAVIATOR?

If you can't find something nice to say - go elsewhere.

UKAVIATOR

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12 years

Posts: 43

Read post 12 again. I am not here to argue or get abuse.:)

TonyT

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12 years 11 months

Posts: 8,824

HamHam you want to try to have another one when the Download festival is on at the racetrack, you're jaw will hit the floor lOL


This will give you an example of just the campsites alone, and even then only part of them :D

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Download%202010/Camping2.jpg

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Download%202010/White2.jpg

Stages

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Download%202010/Downloadstage_3.jpg
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Skymonster

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15 years 3 months

Posts: 1,953

1. The Donair aircraft - and the East Midlands Flying School aircraft prior to that - are well looked after and reliable. TonyT should know - and I can verify having flown them for 15 years! If they were being badly mishandled they'd not be as reliable as they are

2. Flying at a major airport with jet traffic doesn't always allow for GA-style circuits and bimbling down a slow close-to-glide approach. ATC can and does sometmes require wide bases, and if there's jet traffic inbound the best way to get in can be to fly a fairly fast and flatfish approach. Again, I know from experience. We have no idea what ATC asked of the instructor for this approach, but it's not a particularly unusual approach for East Midlands

3. The runway is getting on for 10000' and the video flight vacated at "M" which is a good 8000' from the threshold. Plus there's the taxi back to Donair. Plenty of time for cooling for a non-turbo

Hamham500 - glad you enjoyed your trial lesson. Don't be put off. East Midlands and Donair are great places to learn and fly - in some respects far better than flying from a small GA airport amongst the yokels!
Andy
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hamham500

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9 years 5 months

Posts: 19

Thanks Guys for your responses.

I've recently joined Sherwood Flying Club based at Nottingham Tollerton Airport flying the PA-38. Thanks for the responses, I forgot totally about this post I made.

bravo24

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9 years 5 months

Posts: 252

If they still have the Chippy at Tollerton thats the one to fly!