Titanic - 100th

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In a little under an hour, it will be exactly 100 years since the Titanic hit the ice berg and fateful maritime history was made. Remembering those that died and were affected by this tragedy.
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In a little under an hour, it will be exactly 100 years since the Titanic hit the ice berg and fateful maritime history was made. Remembering those that died and were affected by this tragedy.
That's the official story. I, like many others, don't believe it. Official stories are almost never the real and complete truth. Many alternative stories have appeared over the years. Below is a very brief summary of one of them. The Titanic had an almost identical-looking older sister, the Olympic (maiden voyage June 14, 1911 under Cap. Edward J Smith). On Sep 21, 1911, a collision with Royal Navy cruiser HMS Hawke caused severe damage to the Olympic - a big hole several meters above the waterline as well as below, buckled steel frames, dislodged steel plating over 4 decks, and a bent keel causing noticeable list to port. Inquiry by RN Admiralty placed the Olympic (under Captain Smith) at fault, in effect voiding White Star Line's insurance on the superliner. The Olympic had become a virtual write-off, putting the owners on the brink of bankruptcy. Nevertheless, repairs to the Olympic continued. After yet another accident, the starboard side propeller was replaced with one originally intended for the Titanic, numbered 401. During the final phase of the repairs, Olympic and Titanic had been side by side at the Harland & Wolff Shipyard in Belfast, Ireland. Explorations of the wreck in 1986 reveal the following: A longitudinal bulkhead is found in the stern section where none was ever planned for either ship, suggesting an ad hoc meassure to strengthen the damaged keel. Number "01" can be clearly seen on the starboard propeller, though the number "4" is barely or only partially identifiable due to corrosion. On the upper bow section where the name "Titanic" is supposed to be, 2 metal letter plates riveted to the hull have come off, revealing the original engraved letters .... "m" and "p" - the Olympic and the Titanic were reportedly the only White Star Line ships with name plates riveted to the hull. All other ships had their names etched onto the bow plates. While the black paint on the hull has flaked away, some of the gray paint underneath it can still be seen. And gray paint was only used on the Olympic as undercoat! A week before the Olympic's second maiden voyage, White Star Line upped the insurance dramatically. Many first class passengers canceled their trip just days before the voyage, amongst them the Liner's big financier, JP Morgan. 5 days after the sinking of the Titanic (really the Olympic), the insurer paid out 12.5 million dollars. Among the dead were John J Astor, his family and friends, a rich and powerful opponent to JP Morgan and Rothschild's plan to create a privately owned central bank in the US, later known as the Federal Reserve (the Federal Reserve Act was passed through stealth a couple of days before Christmas of 1913 when most senators had left Capitol Hill). Among the survivors, some have testified that they had noticed a slight permanent list to port during their voyage on board the Titanic.
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i too believe it is the olympic down there !! have read the book and studdied photo's of the two ships the hull plating is even in very difrent areas and forge numbers on the proppelers tally with olympics build and not titanics
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Obviously my post above is not about the thread but just about the previous 2 posts ! rgds baz

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I like to keep an open mind on these things but could someone explain in simple terms what would have been the point of doing it if it did happen!
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I believe it was a 3 card trick with the ships. I have always thought it was the Olympic. Anyway whatever now 100 years on!

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I must admit I was awake until past two this morning; nothing unusual for me there but I did think of the events that unfolded one-hundred years ago on the Titanic. The Titanic tragedy is always going to fascinate; you honestly couldn’t make up a better story if you tried... ...except that remarkably somebody actually did in a novel that predicted almost exactly the circumstances of the loss of Titanic, right down to hitting an iceberg on its maiden voyage and there not being enough lifeboats. That in itself would have been absolutely remarkable had not the name of the ship chosen for this work of fiction been.....the Titan!
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I am not a great believer in most conspiracy theories,generally speaking the truth is usually quite mundane - The Titanic (or whatever ship is down there :)) was badly designed,badly built and made from inferior quality metal etc. From memory the owner of the White Star Line was a cheapskate trying to compete with Cunard. Even during A/C manufacture it was not unusual to use components earmarked for another a/c so the possibilities for shipbuilding are immense. Also I doubt it was unusual for a Ship to be built at variance from the original drawings,it was quite normal to have modifications/concessions from the original drawings in a/c manufacture so I doubt shipbuilding was much different, and perhaps easy for some of the drawing changes being overlooked afterwards! Always keep an open mind and look at the counter argument ;)

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I noticed years ago the the hull plating on some Titanic pics didn't match on others, but did match some pics of Olympic Odd as the name was clear but I always though the pics were probably retouched as often in those days as detail did not always come out and so was painted on. When I read about the conspiracy theory, suddenly that and other odd facts that were had to understand, seemed to fit together. The conspiracy theory is the only story that ties all the facts together. Whether it is true of not, it does seem remarkable close to what the evidence suggests.
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One of the biggest problems with the switch theory is that it ignores the biggest reason why it could not have happened ;)... That reason is most peoples complete inability to keep their mouths shut :)...are we really expected to believe that hundreds if not thousands of dockyard workers etc would not talk about it ?????:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: from one of the many websites...
Unfortunately, for the proponents at least, there are a few issues with this scenario. As I stated there were differences, mainly cosmetic, between the two ships. Most theorists claim that "obviously" the Olympic and Titanic were worked on to ensure they matched each other and that the irregularities in their designs were swapped over. But this would mean not only involvement by a few people but a large scale conspiracy across many people including the skilled ship builders in Belfast. Did all these people manage to keep their silence, even after the plan went horribly wrong? Would the thought that you had taken part in such an awful plan eaten away at you until you couldn't take it any longer?
Or just sold your story to the highest bidder LOL rgds baz

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I noticed years ago the the hull plating on some Titanic pics didn't match on others, but did match some pics of Olympic...
Titanic sank on her maiden voyage and such was the demand for photographs afterwards (and the lack of genuine ones) that many of the photographs of ‘Titanic’ printed in newspapers and books are actually of Olympic (sometimes retouched to cover obvious differences). Sometimes the conspiracy theory isn’t the only explanation that ties all the facts together! ;)

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I'm not talking about those These are pics in the building and showing the name and published before Titanic sank. I know the ones you mean...even some used are of the Lusitania, but there are a series of pics in a book I've sadly lost now showing Titanic being fitted out and the hull plating does not match the pics of her before launch but does match pics of Olympic. Some of the labelled parts found that do show Olympic may not be evidence as when Olympic was damaged whilst Titanic was being fitted out, they took some of Titanic's parts to repair Olympic and some parts labelled Olympic as replacements were fitted to Titanic. But some parts that seem to indicate Olympic were not damaged in the collision so not replaced. It could have been that some parts for both ships were made at the same time and the wrong part fitted as it would hardly matter. If I do find the book again, the house is being cleared I'll scan the pics in and show what I mean.
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Was that from the book by the Plasterer Garry ? Even on the internet there are a couple of websites that actually take note of the Inquiry Questions/Answers/Findings.... Even about the SS Californian ! I always keep an open mind about things but generally speaking the conspiracy theories about subjects which I am familiar with turn out to be fanciful rubbish. I looked into the Titanic thing some years ago and I never was convinced by the switch theory.

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I love a good conspiracy theory in the morning!
The Titanic had an almost identical-looking older sister, the Olympic (maiden voyage June 14, 1911 under Cap. Edward J Smith). On Sep 21, 1911, a collision with Royal Navy cruiser HMS Hawke caused severe damage to the Olympic - a big hole several meters above the waterline as well as below, buckled steel frames, dislodged steel plating over 4 decks, and a bent keel causing noticeable list to port. The Olympic had become a virtual write-off...
How many commercial crossings did this supposed ‘write-off’ complete between the collision with HMS Hawke and the swap with the Titanic? I don’t know but it seems odd that such a ‘wreck’ was at sea, carrying passengers, on the same day Titanic was lost.
Inquiry by RN Admiralty placed the Olympic (under Captain Smith) at fault, in effect voiding White Star Line's insurance on the superliner.
What? Only third-party insurance? :D
A week before [Titanic’s] maiden voyage, White Star Line upped the insurance dramatically.
Presumably also changing the insurance to fully-comprehensive this time as there was nobody else involved (except the iceberg) as again the blame could only be due to the White Star Line and their crew?
Among the survivors, some have testified that they had noticed a slight permanent list to port during their voyage on board the Titanic.
Presumably the perpetrators of the Titanic / Olympic ‘swap’ forgot to trim-out the list with any of the thousands of tons of coal that was carried on these liners and which was a standard procedure of the Engineering Officers and the crew especially carried for this purpose?
Many first class passengers canceled their trip just days before the voyage, amongst them the Liner's big financier, JP Morgan. Among the dead were John J Astor, his family and friends, a rich and powerful opponent to JP Morgan...
That is, quite frankly, ridiculous! Are you suggesting the one motive for the sinking was murder? Not exactly a fool-proof plan since many first-class passengers survived. Also this ‘murder’ motive doesn’t need the Olympic / Titanic swap does it; why not just sink the Titanic in this way? And while we’re on the subject; exactly how was this supposed ‘murder’ perpetrated? How did the crew of the Titanic know where the iceberg was? Who was involved in the ‘murder’, Captain Smith (who gave his life for it), the other officers, and the lookouts? “Iceberg dead ahead! – Right, aim to just graze it; it’s got to look like an accident!” :rolleyes: Sorry, this is utterly preposterous! As for the supposed spotting of Olympic components on the Titanic wreck I’m sure some major Titanic components were used on the Olympic, I think some of the boilers for example, and we know that some propeller swaps were made so isn’t it likely that some Olympic components were used to complete the Titanic? But, as has been pointed out, what about the major visible differences between the two ships? The differences in the promenade decks, for example, or the major differences in the internal room layouts? These were not cosmetic differences and I’m sure that it would be absolutely impossible for every single member of the shipyard workers and the two ships crews not to notice that the ships had been swapped and then to keep their mouths shut for a hundred years! The ‘official version’ isn’t always the whole truth but if you’re going to offer an alternative you ought to be able to support it with a convincing argument; I’m genuinely interested in the Titanic (and conspiracy theories) and I’d love to hear anybody explain away my comments.
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Quote Creaking Door....I don’t know but it seems odd that such a ‘wreck’ was at sea, carrying passengers, on the same day Titanic was lost.
Good point CD !!;) From... http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=rms+olympic+sailing+schedule&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CEYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.titanicandco.com%2Folympic.html&ei=quiKT72QKIKI0AWlw5DsCQ&v6u=http%3A%2F%2Fipv4.ipv6-exp.l.google.com%2Fgen_204%3Fip%3D79.68.104.228%26ts%3D1334503594868962%26auth%3Dgoicmyosiip56uz5poo4l2vv7vh6nmv6%26rndm%3D0.7284487788565457&v6s=2&v6t=3742&usg=AFQjCNF2rwj4faumspbmPhwHZBWFf_p4iw
Titanic left Southampton on April 10th 1912 to make her maiden voyage. Olympic left New York at 3 p.m. on 13th April. There was talk on the two ships that they would pass each other sometime on the way.
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Can't beat a good conspiracy theory, no sir... http://www.mossonarock.ca/forum/Smileys/akyhne/tinfoil.gif

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Titanic left Southampton on April 10th 1912 to make her maiden voyage. Olympic left New York at 3 p.m. on 13th April. There was talk on the two ships that they would pass each other sometime on the way.
But, of course, that was Titanic that left New York on 13th April 1912... ...and the Olympic was the one speeding to ram the iceberg for the insurance! ;) I think I’ve confused myself now! :confused: Anyway they were both at sea.....and apparently in good nick on 13th April 1912.

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I must admit I was awake until past two this morning; nothing unusual for me there but I did think of the events that unfolded one-hundred years ago on the Titanic. The Titanic tragedy is always going to fascinate; you honestly couldn’t make up a better story if you tried... ...except that remarkably somebody actually did in a novel that predicted almost exactly the circumstances of the loss of Titanic, right down to hitting an iceberg on its maiden voyage and there not being enough lifeboats. That in itself would have been absolutely remarkable had not the name of the ship chosen for this work of fiction been.....the Titan!
It's perfectly possible that the scheme involving the Titanic had been inspired by that novel, though according to historic accounts, switching the identities of ships for insurance money was quite common during that period (some have claimed that it's still being attempted to this day). But pictures from the explorations suggest that there had been an explosion in one of the coal bunkers, as that particular part of the hull is not caving in, but bursting out. There is also some circumstantial evidence pointing to foul play - another liner (the Californian, also owned by JP Morgan), with no passengers but blankets and sweaters as cargo, fully coaled amid a big coal strike, had sailed a few days before the Titanic / Olympic, and was waiting in the neighborhood of the sinking site. There were 6 telegrams from the Californian to the Titanic, all addressed to Captain Smith himself, advising him of the position of the Californian. The Titanic was off course from the agreed-upon rescue area. But it could have been a separate scheme on top of the "accident-rescue" scheme, considering that the Astors and friends were such powerful opponents to the Rothschild / JP Morgan in creating the Federal Reserve. (I dare say that over 80% of Americans don't have a clue about the nature and power of the Federal Reserve. After all, how many Americans have seen through the BS of the official 9-11 story??)

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I believe it was a 3 card trick with the ships. I have always thought it was the Olympic. Anyway whatever now 100 years on!
I would probably have done the same if I had been in their position with the same kind of money and power as JP Morgan or the Rothschilds. The cost of buying off a few men for the scheme is absolutely nothing compared to the benefit of creating and owning the bank of issue in the US. As Mayer Amschel Rothschild once said, "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who writes its laws."