By: 1batfastard
- 19th April 2018 at 08:39Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
I think that we have been conned into helping the US attack personally there just has not been the 100% evidence as with the skripal poisoning that a
chemical weapon was used in Syria. I find it a funny coincidence that Israel struck the T4 airbase after the coalition bombing of the chemical plants and
facilities.
Personally I think we should have been given irrefutable proof and consulted parliament before hand, I think there wouldn't have been such an outcry and
a kneejerk reaction if this had been done above board. As it is there allegations it was a false flag with the white helmets pushing the narrative.
None of the MSM picked up on the Israeli attack apart from The Daly Star and Express, (Of which Syria claimed to have knocked 9 missiles down)
was not even referred anywhere either in western MSM except in a couple of youtube sites and eastern news outlets unless I missed something anybody
else heard of this ?
By: St. John
- 22nd April 2018 at 19:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The problem with giving the benefit of the doubt on Skirpal poisoning, is the Litvinenko poisoning that preceded it and the Yuschenko poisoning in Ukraine before that. That's one hell of a string of coincidences, and for me, RT spent a little too long defending the allegations, which had the effect of giving off the smell of guilt.
In the Syria incident, the OPCW were denied access for 2 weeks, citing security reasons. The US/UK/FR attack hasn't changed the course of the war and it wasn't intended to, so a false pretext to achieve nothing seems pointless and unlikely.
By: 1batfastard
- 23rd April 2018 at 18:20Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Yes I agree with all the coincidences and that RT is basically a Russian mouthpiece but at the end of the day we still do not have any proof which is
needed. Just a couple of questions about this need to be answered. One thing I have never understood about the White Helmets has been they are on the spot of each chemical attack yet they always enter these areas without Respirators or Chem suits, least of all any gloves always touching with bear hands and they never appear not t be affected yet the weapons have literally just gone off, surely the chemical is still in the air /on the ground et.etc.
Why do the UK keep changing the narrative about the poisoning the latest news was that it was a liquid rather than Aerosol/Powder or Gas. Also allegedly
Russia is the only manufacturer of this Novichok yet the UK could identify it. so how on earth did they know unless they also have samples ? That of
course begs the question:- How did they acquire their sample ? from the US ? If so then where did the US get their sample from ?
To me we the UK are as guilty of spying on the Russians and others including friendlies as they are guilty of spying on us the trick obviously is not getting caught doing it and IMPO events like this poisoning are open to being hijacked for one agenda or another as to what they may be I have no idea just
speculation.
I still think that the two strikes in Syria are connected as Israel does not want the Iranians on their doorstep making it easier for them to attack Israel as
they have threatened many times and continue to. I can see Syria allowing that to happen unless the Russians prohibit them because let's face it Mr Assad will listen to them and tell everybody else to sod off!
Geoff.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 24th April 2018 at 12:46Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Solid proof is rarely ever available in espionage circles.
I wasn't aware they did change the narrative, could just be the media trying to fill in blanks. They were trying to kill the target only, that's why an aerosol would not be used, it did however affect a policeman. They also wanted to affect something the targets would touch and be out of there before they did. An aerosol would be way to dangerous and far less targeted and could very well result in a major international incident - I mean a proper major international incident. Weaponised nerve agents (VX, Novichok etc.) are dispersed as an aerosol and could probably kill hundreds of thousands if unleashed in London as a large warhead.
I think Russia were specified as the inventors not the only manufacturers, the formula is known. Quite a lot is known about it due to a leak. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
Spying is one thing, assassination using nerve agent in a public place is another.
I'm not sure Assad does see completely eye-to-eye with the Russians. The Russians want to call a peace deal, Assad wants back full control over Syria.
By: 1batfastard
- 24th April 2018 at 18:31Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Again I totally agree with the assassination comment, but they cannot make up their mind on what form 1st Powder/2nd Aerosol/3rd Injected the final as
I said previously also now saying in liquid form that evaporates quickly I may add. In my mind they are just rummaging around looking for and grasping
at any straw because so much bull has already been blurted out and they are losing the ground on which to put the evidence firmly at Russia's doorstep.
Like you say the evidence is hard to find yet they seem to be able to have it weeks later still ? Take the Syrian alleged attack apparently the chlorine used
doesn't take long to evaporate so they are not that hopeful of finding any evidence ? ? Myself I think the attack was to distract from the Israel attack on
the T4 base where the Iranians where killed and I watched one video alleging that Iraq had actually participated with Assads permission what's all that
about then ?
One thing's for sure something is definitely brewing over the middle east and I don't think it's anything good, I just pray all these people involved have
cooler heads as with major powers involved it's even more worrying.
Geoff.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 26th April 2018 at 00:14Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Where are you getting the information about powder/injected/aerosol from?
Porton Down has already confirmed that it was Novichok (confirmed by OPCW) and the investigation has confirmed it was applied to the door handle of their home.
He was a defector, Putin hates betrayal (said so in video), Russian Intelligence had hacked into their e-mail since 2013. Classified intelligence also showed the Russians had tested delivery methods including door handles. Other than a signed confession from Putin, I don't see what more evidence they actually need.
The jury is still out on the assassination of Rasputin though.
By: 1batfastard
- 26th April 2018 at 19:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
The authorities have stated the various forms of dispersal methods. Yes I know Putin hates betrayal and I agree that makes him a prime suspect. My point
has always been the authorities have changed their narrative with just how the chemical was dispersed and other information drip fed to the public. IMPO
there is something off with the whole affair.
just as an instance what they are saying about it being administered in a liquid form now, well for that to have happened who ever administered the chemical
would surely have to get really close ? The door handle theory it would run right off wouldn't it unless it was a liquid gel ? why put it on the door handle ? why are they still in the process of cleaning the alleged dispersal areas up now wearing NBC suits ?
Like I say to many inconsistences make the official narrative suspect I don't honestly know I just fear that if the government can fob the electorate off in
other areas then it's not that much of a leap to do the same about serious stuff like this. Whether this is to stop the public from worrying I don't know ? I
cannot be the only one who would prefer the truth about matters no matter how bad they are ?
Keeping secrets from the people who put you in charge is bad when it comes to the cvi world, while I do accept the need for security secrets that is a
must and I can accept certain those secrets are essential.
By: 1batfastard
- 29th April 2018 at 08:30Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Various media outlets have commented but the BBC have said about the various ways it can be dispersed/applied over past weeks since the alleged attack
occurred.
I have to apologise for my confusing statement in my last post only adding to the mix, the issue with the quick evaporation statement was about the alleged Chlorine attack where the OPCW were on about the delay in inspecting the site, expressing concern that any residue of an attack would have evaporated and their tests would be that much difficult to be of any use as evidence.
Geoff.
New
Posts: 550
By: St. John
- 29th April 2018 at 13:42Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And there are various ways it can be dispersed but they did not say how it was dispersed in this case, other than being applied to a door handle. It's also important to note that Novichok is a series of chemical variants, not just one.
I don't know about the Syria incident but the OPCW were blocked from accessing the incident site and the sites targeted in air strikes for alleged 'security reasons'.
Posts: 2,536
By: hampden98 - 11th April 2018 at 20:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-43727829
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 19th April 2018 at 08:39 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
I think that we have been conned into helping the US attack personally there just has not been the 100% evidence as with the skripal poisoning that a
chemical weapon was used in Syria. I find it a funny coincidence that Israel struck the T4 airbase after the coalition bombing of the chemical plants and
facilities.
Personally I think we should have been given irrefutable proof and consulted parliament before hand, I think there wouldn't have been such an outcry and
a kneejerk reaction if this had been done above board. As it is there allegations it was a false flag with the white helmets pushing the narrative.
None of the MSM picked up on the Israeli attack apart from The Daly Star and Express, (Of which Syria claimed to have knocked 9 missiles down)
was not even referred anywhere either in western MSM except in a couple of youtube sites and eastern news outlets unless I missed something anybody
else heard of this ?
Here are a couple of videos and an article link (Warning it's the news and not the religious references you have to pay attention to) Is this part of a wider move as this guy is alleging ? https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/syria/israel-admits-to-syria-strike-in-first-we-hit-live-iranian-targets-1.6007914
Geoff.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 22nd April 2018 at 19:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The problem with giving the benefit of the doubt on Skirpal poisoning, is the Litvinenko poisoning that preceded it and the Yuschenko poisoning in Ukraine before that. That's one hell of a string of coincidences, and for me, RT spent a little too long defending the allegations, which had the effect of giving off the smell of guilt.
In the Syria incident, the OPCW were denied access for 2 weeks, citing security reasons. The US/UK/FR attack hasn't changed the course of the war and it wasn't intended to, so a false pretext to achieve nothing seems pointless and unlikely.
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 23rd April 2018 at 18:20 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Yes I agree with all the coincidences and that RT is basically a Russian mouthpiece but at the end of the day we still do not have any proof which is
needed. Just a couple of questions about this need to be answered. One thing I have never understood about the White Helmets has been they are on the spot of each chemical attack yet they always enter these areas without Respirators or Chem suits, least of all any gloves always touching with bear hands and they never appear not t be affected yet the weapons have literally just gone off, surely the chemical is still in the air /on the ground et.etc.
Why do the UK keep changing the narrative about the poisoning the latest news was that it was a liquid rather than Aerosol/Powder or Gas. Also allegedly
Russia is the only manufacturer of this Novichok yet the UK could identify it. so how on earth did they know unless they also have samples ? That of
course begs the question:- How did they acquire their sample ? from the US ? If so then where did the US get their sample from ?
To me we the UK are as guilty of spying on the Russians and others including friendlies as they are guilty of spying on us the trick obviously is not getting caught doing it and IMPO events like this poisoning are open to being hijacked for one agenda or another as to what they may be I have no idea just
speculation.
I still think that the two strikes in Syria are connected as Israel does not want the Iranians on their doorstep making it easier for them to attack Israel as
they have threatened many times and continue to. I can see Syria allowing that to happen unless the Russians prohibit them because let's face it Mr Assad will listen to them and tell everybody else to sod off!
Geoff.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 24th April 2018 at 12:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Solid proof is rarely ever available in espionage circles.
I wasn't aware they did change the narrative, could just be the media trying to fill in blanks. They were trying to kill the target only, that's why an aerosol would not be used, it did however affect a policeman. They also wanted to affect something the targets would touch and be out of there before they did. An aerosol would be way to dangerous and far less targeted and could very well result in a major international incident - I mean a proper major international incident. Weaponised nerve agents (VX, Novichok etc.) are dispersed as an aerosol and could probably kill hundreds of thousands if unleashed in London as a large warhead.
I think Russia were specified as the inventors not the only manufacturers, the formula is known. Quite a lot is known about it due to a leak.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novichok_agent
Spying is one thing, assassination using nerve agent in a public place is another.
I'm not sure Assad does see completely eye-to-eye with the Russians. The Russians want to call a peace deal, Assad wants back full control over Syria.
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 24th April 2018 at 18:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Again I totally agree with the assassination comment, but they cannot make up their mind on what form 1st Powder/2nd Aerosol/3rd Injected the final as
I said previously also now saying in liquid form that evaporates quickly I may add. In my mind they are just rummaging around looking for and grasping
at any straw because so much bull has already been blurted out and they are losing the ground on which to put the evidence firmly at Russia's doorstep.
Like you say the evidence is hard to find yet they seem to be able to have it weeks later still ? Take the Syrian alleged attack apparently the chlorine used
doesn't take long to evaporate so they are not that hopeful of finding any evidence ? ? Myself I think the attack was to distract from the Israel attack on
the T4 base where the Iranians where killed and I watched one video alleging that Iraq had actually participated with Assads permission what's all that
about then ?
One thing's for sure something is definitely brewing over the middle east and I don't think it's anything good, I just pray all these people involved have
cooler heads as with major powers involved it's even more worrying.
Geoff.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 26th April 2018 at 00:14 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Where are you getting the information about powder/injected/aerosol from?
Porton Down has already confirmed that it was Novichok (confirmed by OPCW) and the investigation has confirmed it was applied to the door handle of their home.
He was a defector, Putin hates betrayal (said so in video), Russian Intelligence had hacked into their e-mail since 2013. Classified intelligence also showed the Russians had tested delivery methods including door handles. Other than a signed confession from Putin, I don't see what more evidence they actually need.
The jury is still out on the assassination of Rasputin though.
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 26th April 2018 at 19:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
The authorities have stated the various forms of dispersal methods. Yes I know Putin hates betrayal and I agree that makes him a prime suspect. My point
has always been the authorities have changed their narrative with just how the chemical was dispersed and other information drip fed to the public. IMPO
there is something off with the whole affair.
just as an instance what they are saying about it being administered in a liquid form now, well for that to have happened who ever administered the chemical
would surely have to get really close ? The door handle theory it would run right off wouldn't it unless it was a liquid gel ? why put it on the door handle ? why are they still in the process of cleaning the alleged dispersal areas up now wearing NBC suits ?
Like I say to many inconsistences make the official narrative suspect I don't honestly know I just fear that if the government can fob the electorate off in
other areas then it's not that much of a leap to do the same about serious stuff like this. Whether this is to stop the public from worrying I don't know ? I
cannot be the only one who would prefer the truth about matters no matter how bad they are ?
Keeping secrets from the people who put you in charge is bad when it comes to the cvi world, while I do accept the need for security secrets that is a
must and I can accept certain those secrets are essential.
Geoff.
Posts: 2
By: balanceistische - 27th April 2018 at 15:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The world is bad! And if humanity goes on like that, it will go to ruin.
Balanceisten
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 27th April 2018 at 23:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Who said it evaporates really quickly and who said what form it was applied in?
Posts: 3,652
By: 1batfastard - 29th April 2018 at 08:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Various media outlets have commented but the BBC have said about the various ways it can be dispersed/applied over past weeks since the alleged attack
occurred.
I have to apologise for my confusing statement in my last post only adding to the mix, the issue with the quick evaporation statement was about the alleged Chlorine attack where the OPCW were on about the delay in inspecting the site, expressing concern that any residue of an attack would have evaporated and their tests would be that much difficult to be of any use as evidence.
Geoff.
Posts: 550
By: St. John - 29th April 2018 at 13:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
And there are various ways it can be dispersed but they did not say how it was dispersed in this case, other than being applied to a door handle. It's also important to note that Novichok is a series of chemical variants, not just one.
I don't know about the Syria incident but the OPCW were blocked from accessing the incident site and the sites targeted in air strikes for alleged 'security reasons'.