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Profile picture for user Beermat

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12 years

Posts: 3,439

That's more than a little tired, isn't it?

When Conservative politicians attempt to deflect a question about the real situation by insulting members of the opposition in some rhetorical non-sequitur they are rightly - these days - 'called out' for it. I would have thought it was beneath you, too.

But go on then, I'll play. Where does 'theft from the nation's purse' apply more to anything the left espouse (which, last time I looked, included filling the nations purse at the expense of profiteers) than the policy of private profit from public services as ascribed to by the right? (answers on a postcard, please).

And should you be interested in their performance as H. M. Opposition (as opposed to your D.Tel. version): https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/voting-intention-conservatives-39-labour-42-10-11-/

Hoist by the 'the majority in a democracy are by definition right' petard?

Member for

10 years 6 months

Posts: 6,527

You made the running, I didn't. "lack of talent" - "means and capability" - "world finds it funny". Quite how you KNOW that is beyond even my lurid imagination.

I simply answered you in kind. You know well, without further explanation from me, the capacity for the 'left' to always be guaranteed to mismanage the economy. That is their known area of expertise, ably assisted of course, by the unions. Socialism impoverishes; capitalism enriches. Its been that way since the dawn of time !

Profile picture for user Beermat

Member for

12 years

Posts: 3,439

Balls. How do I 'know' that? My world is wider than yours, sir. I may even have spoken to - and (I know you will find this abhorrent) even listened to foreigners.

Have you noticed how much better off the average (left-of-centre) Scandinavian is? No? Probably not, because that won't be mentioned in the Telegraph. Yes, the average. No, you don't get stupidly rich people talking about how their wealth benefits everyone there. Kind of my point.

Have you spoken to any Swedes lately? About how they are f-ing up their economy by introducing inequalities in a deliberate bid from above to embrace neo-liberalism? No. But I bet you 'know' all about Venezuela, because the Telegraph tells you it was a socialist economic disaster. Only it wasn't, because Hugo Chavez was a Bolivarian, not a socialist. He was a populist, and when it suited he aligned himself with Marx - without instituting a single Marxist policy. No, John, 'free money' is not a socialist policy and never has been.

Does the D. Tel. even acknowledge the existence of Ecuador? Bolivia? While Vietnam is on the up you won't hear tell of that, either. How about how Cuba has managed to stay in the top quartile for the region in pretty much every indicator by remaining properly socialist since the communists pulled out in 61? Despite every effort of the most powerful capitalist nation in the word to sabotage the economy of the place?

Or how about India? Yes, India. As well as one of the most successful growth economies of the past decade (OECD, not me), it has a socialist constitution. Did you know that? No? Well ****** me, your public school education lets you down again.

I am not claiming socialism is any more a panacea than any other 'ism'. I am saying your simplistic statement about capitalism 'since the dawn of time' is utter balls.

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10 years 6 months

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Oh dear ! Touched a bit of a nerve !

Profile picture for user Beermat

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12 years

Posts: 3,439

Just trying to get through. Do you hear other people when they try to explain that you are talking crap? It must have happened a lot in your life - enough for you to question some of your dearly-held 'principles' if you understand the words. So.. which bit of 'that is balls' don't you understand?

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13 years 4 months

Posts: 686

John

Trotting out this constant Labour spends the money, Tories make it, is a load of tosh and you know it, our country is in a poorer financial state than ever even after all the "diligent austerity measures" from the Tories, guarantee to get some Tory devotee screeching "employment figures are at their highest" yet what jobs are all these people doing? they sure as hell aren't all in well paid jobs, more likely part of the "gig" economy, temporary contracts, zero hour contracts, bogus self employed contracts, in fact any damn job which avoids employer responsibility.

You might also have noticed during the last few days job cuts totalling some 1,400, plus 100s of other jobs linked to BAE and the Vauxhall factory in Ellesmere Port, these are all skilled or semiskilled jobs with decent earnings, to be replaced with what I ask?

The government has not taken up the opportunity to replace the aircraft used by the Red Arrows, they are still using the Hawk MK1 when surely they should be showcasing the latest derivative, it has even been mentioned that when the Red Arrows fleet is due for replacement in 2020, the government will look at suitable aircraft at the time, is this code for buying foreign for the RAF's display team? now that would be the final insult and the end of military aircraft construction in the UK.

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10 years 6 months

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BM

All of it.

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10 years 6 months

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I do not at all disagree with your last paragraph. As a former serviceman, defence spending is a subject very close to my heart. I'd like a fiver for every letter I've written to the relevant minister on that matter.

As for your opening remarks, I refer you to earlier comments. The country is almost absurdly prosperous. We have more people in employment. The signs of prosperity abound. New cars thick on the ground. Seven days a week, the shops are always full of shoppers. Consumer confidence abounds. The restaurants and hotels are full and booked. I know that one swallow does not a summer make but, bearing in mind the date, I tried to book Xmas lunch for my sister and her daughter here on the South coast. Of five venues telephoned, just one could offer a table at a cost of £75 per head ! The rest were fully booked.

Taking advantage of a short visit from Spain of my sister-in-law, thus temporarily releasing my wife from 'looking after mother' duties, we tried to book a foreign holiday. Next to impossible, not just for the dates we had available but, for dates outside of those as well. Beermat would probably comment that that is because people are desperate to leave this benighted country !

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13 years 4 months

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John

I have already questioned this vision of high employment, new car sales are down nationally, house building and sales are slowing certainly away from London and the South, some sectors are doing OK, but we are seeing more and more industry and business edging their bets on investment until we get some clarity on Brexit, from my previous post regarding the Vauxhall plant, bear in mind that the plant is now owned by PSA in other words the Peugeot/Citroen group, they have said that future work at the Vauxhall plant will depend on Brexit deal and productivity, currently due to investment and modernisation the Peugeot plant in France is outstripping production from the Vauxhall plant, would make it very easy to pull out of Ellesmere Port altogether.

Hate the rather gloomy post, but I'm not blind or deaf either.

Profile picture for user Beermat

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12 years

Posts: 3,439

The only thing benighting this country is blind adherence to a failed doctrine.

New car sales are down. The only sector of that market on the up is the SUV bought on tick, because some people feel the need to keep up appearances when in fact they are in the same downward spiral as most of us and can't afford to actually buy a new car.

What country do you live in where 'consumer confidence' abounds and everyone is getting rich? If you try and book a Christmas lunch as late as October, John, you will have to try quite a few venues before getting one. That was true twenty years ago and is no less true now. It is a very poor indicator of economic health for reasons to do with supply and demand for eating out generally which I am sure you can work out for yourself - you would struggle as much in Malawi as Malibu.

As for foreign holidays, did you make the mistake of telling them who you were before asking? Or, come to that, are you aware that people from other countries, including ones doing better than us right now, go on holiday too?

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10 years 6 months

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Foreign holidays ?

It's funny that you mention that because I now know the problem. I've been giving your name.

Profile picture for user Beermat

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12 years

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The best you can do these days? No fun any more. You could try reading and addressing the points? Then again, old right-wingers aren't particularly good at either of these.

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10 years 6 months

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You're not a particularly good example of a judge.

Profile picture for user Beermat

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12 years

Posts: 3,439

I am not an example of a judge at all.

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13 years 4 months

Posts: 686

John

Your comment that "The country is almost absurdly prosperous" sounds great, we can all relax in our wealth and prosperity.

BBC 6 o'clock news, inflation up, productivity down, economic growth down, many areas of GB experiencing falling house prices, sales falling off because many can't afford to sell the house they are in right now due to negative equity, the Bank of England toying with interest rate rise as a counter to inflation, this move is inflationary in itself, what it usually does is cut domestic borrowing and spending, right now I don't see that as a help.

Mind you in your cozy world this is probably fake news, much of this stems from the Brexit decision and the uncertainty of how it will all pan out, remember when the more rabid Brexiteers claimed the Remain campaign was "project fear", looks like the Remainers were closer to the truth and we haven't left yet.

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10 years 6 months

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News to-day. BBC radio.

More people in work. More and more jobs. Employment at a new 12 year high.

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13 years 4 months

Posts: 686

Alongside that, house repossessions at an all time high, families in temporary accommodation at an all time high more homeless on the streets than ever, food banks struggling to cope supplying WORKING people, in work benefits continues to rise, housing benefit (a direct subsidy to private landlords) is at it's highest level.

We all know or at least those who look a little deeper, the quality and reliability of all these jobs, plus of course the system can and does manage to get more and more people temporarily off benefits, that doesn't automatically mean these people have paid employment, more likely doing useless, meaningless courses, between benefits, or sanctioned after some prat decides that having one leg means you are fully fit for any job.

Profile picture for user Beermat

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Posts: 3,439

Britain is a low wage economy with endemic poverty caused by millions stuck in jobs for which the weekly wage is less than benefits because of zero hours, bogus self employment and compulsory unpaid periods. That is normal - while the talk is on preventing modern slavery, Aldi, for example, expect staff to work 30 minutes around each shift completely unpaid. At Poundland, this unpaid period for minimum wage staff is 'at the manager's discresion' (sic). Probably not legal, but while it helps headlines lauded by those really not keeping up (John) that make it look, to them, like things are great, it will continue as we gently slide away from the developed world towards a broken third world economy.

And yes, it might press the 'bile release' button in your head but avoiding this disgusting and internationally embarrrasing situation - working people needing food banks - was precisely what unions were for.

Trumpeting 'employment' figures only really works on those thinking like it's the 1970's and with no clue what's really going on.

Look, I am not saying that tories are evil, or that this mess was somehow the plan. Thirty-eight years of one 'ism' with no real counter will screw up any nation. The disaster would be if we forgot that that there was an alternative, that a check and a balance isn't the ludicrous idea of an old dreamer, which is pretty much the anti-Corbyn message, but a necessary movement away from an increasingly damaging political monoculture.

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10 years 6 months

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Especially for you Trekie. I will not on any account ever write that I told you so ! It would be wrong to attack the organisationally illiterate. The following was published in that journal of excellence, The Daily Mail about one week ago.

A former LABOUR education minister; Lord Adonis said that new universities should be converted back to their former status as polytechnics. He went on to say that the move to 'rebadge' the polys as universities was a very serious mistake.

Polys were imtended to administer and award vocational qualifications and were not there to ape the more prestigious establishments.

There is nothing so great and good as a LABOUR politician who, eventually, sees sense. There are more than enough uni's awarding their Mickey Mouse degrees without the need to amplify their numbers.

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10 years 3 months

Posts: 851

Ah, yet again I wondered when this old chestnut would surface on your radar-you do like to get your news a little late don't you John. As you are quite aware Adonis is hardly a typical Labour politician even if he still takes the whip in the Lords

I think the best reply would be one that was in the letters page of the Guardian

Lord Adonis (Strip former polytechnics of university status, says ex-minister, 11 October) shows a staggering ignorance of the status and quality of many of those institutions. If we were to choose to cull degree-awarding institutions from metrics based on their actual performance rather than the prejudice and ignorance he shares with so many of his fellow ex-Oxbridge members of the establishment, some of the traditional universities would be in line for the chop. Even the “greatest” universities at the top of the pecking order are not universally excellent and have some departments that would struggle academically in competition with the former polytechnics. Would he suggest Oxford, for example, should be closed because some departments are under-performing? I think not. Do the universities need reform? Yes, but based on evidence not prejudice.

As this shows, he is simply reinforcing your own prejudice.