Fox Hunting

Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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9 years 4 months

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M.Ps, are going to try and get the current Law relating to Fox Hunting, back to how it used to be."Through the back door". Now I don't mind them being Culled by a trained person, who can dispatch said Fox with a clean shot with a rifle, but it sure makes me mad when I have seen it on T.V. when the Hounds catch the fox, and it is ripped apart whilst still alive, and when the "Landed Gentry" look on and cheer.Barbaric to say the least. What are your thoughts on this?. Jim Lincoln .7
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Profile picture for user Meddle

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5 years 1 month

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I look at it two ways. Having spent some of my university careers around the 'young fermers', I understand that it is difficult for us townies to fully comprehend a lot of the culture and practices in the countryside. Their attitude towards animals is often less than exemplary, and it doesn't start or end with foxes. One individual used vehicle fumes to gas a covered trailer-full of 'left over' turkeys following the Christmas season. Others took great delight in dispatching noisy crows and rooks from their bedroom window with an airgun if necessary. To underwrite all of this, and dismiss otherwise mentally sound individuals as having these feral killing urges is to simplify the issue immensely. After all as a society we are often told to be tolerant towards bizarre quirks in other cultures (Halal meat production springs to mind), so why should we write off our own traditions so readily? Hare coursing, badger baiting and fox hunting are traditional practices within a culture that the vast majority of us are not a part of, even if we live on the same land mass. If we cared so readily about animal rights then we would not support any aspect of the meat industry. Yet we convince ourselves that free-range hens are anything other than battery chickens with a view of the sky, or that veal calves have it better than their brothers who took a bolt to the brain on day one. Funny old world, given that the UK has the best and most comprehensive set animal rights and regulations within the EU. That a relatively small number Hooray Henrys have a distasteful method of vermin control seems like small beer really compared to industrial-scale meat production. On the other hand, I remember personally having to kill diseased fish in an animal research lab and not finding it an easy task. A friend of mine used to work on a fish farm installed in a Loch in the North-West of Scotland and has similar tales. Whilst they had to appear to be doing everything by the book, Salmon sometimes got lost on the way to the bins and ended up in the freezer. By comparison, the lab I was working in had to be squeaky clean. One of the fish I had to dispatch had a genetic defect that meant it couldn't spawn, and instead it accrued a backlog of eggs under its scales. This lead to a very lopsided fish that swam in circles and ultimately floated up to the surface. To verify, in accordance with UK legislation, that the fish was dead, one had to take a serrated knife and hack into the brain to a certain depth. The fish could already be long-dead, but the brain needed to be destroyed to meet government standards. This endless, and slightly farcical, red-tape seems at odds with the idea of a pack of dogs savaging a vixen in a field somewhere. I do feel that foxes should probably be 'controlled' is a slightly less barbaric manner, even if they are a massive nuisance to anybody trying to keep ducks or hens. Edit to add: I find it disappointing that the Tories view this as a priority topic, as they are clearly trying to keep their back bench and home counties pals on side. It somewhat undermines any attempt, as half-arsed as it may be, of making them appear slightly more in tune with the majority of this country.

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Roast rolled loin of Reynard - delicious !

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As long as we understand that fox hunting is a country sport, and has nothing to do with controlling the fox population. Otherwise why would foxes be dug out of their earths the night before a hunt, then released when the hunt is approaching ? Slitting their pads first to make it easier for the hounds to follow their scent.

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8 years 2 months

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I was brought up in the countryside, and along with a large percentage of our neighbours, was not a fan of the hunt or their practices. I currently live in a semi rural area and it is the same again here. A fair number of local land owners don't allow the local hunt on their land, even the emasculated drag hunts they are supposed to have these days. It is a myth to say all counrtyside folk want the hunting act repealed, it is only a relatively small section of the community who do so. The Countryside Alliances claims of redunancies failed to happen locally. In my opinion the balance between sport and vermin control is about right at the moment. I have written to my MP to ask him to vote against the proposals. He will, of course, ignore me as he is pro hunting, voted against the Act in the first place and the Countryside Alliance gave him an award in 2003 but I felt I should register my point of view.
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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Treckie. I too have written to my M.P. as you have. Jim. Lincoln .7
Profile picture for user Lincoln 7

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9 years 4 months

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Treckie. I too have written to my M.P. as you have. Jim. Lincoln .7

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"the unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable". Who was it that said that ? My guess is Oscar Wilde.
Profile picture for user Moggy C

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Probably. Can't say I am bothered one way or another really. I certainly wouldn't get involved in hunting, but then I hate horses (They scare me). On the other hand I have shot a few foxes, just necessary on a game shoot. I do feel a lot of the anti sentiments are more class-based than anything else. Moggy

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I do feel a lot of the anti sentiments are more class-based than anything else.
I agree. How many who would ban fox-hunting would also ban fishing for sport? Because no political party ever will!
Profile picture for user j_jza80

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I don't agree with fox hunting, though I am all for humane culling if it is necessary. However, this issue is tiny compared to the one of Halal and Kosher slaughter, which sees thousands of animals killed in a brutal fashion every day just to satisfy a superstitious bunch. I wager many of those against fox hunting on animal welfare grounds have no issue with Halal or Kosher slaughter.

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8 years 2 months

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I do feel a lot of the anti sentiments are more class-based than anything else. Moggy
This is not my personal experience, but may be true of others I can't really comment on that. In my experience many of the hunt supporters where I grew up, perhaps even a majority, are not 'posh' people, and many of those who oppose hunting with dogs on their land are what would probably be called upper class, certainly upper middle class. It is more a case that those who know about countryside matters are aware that the vermin control element could and should be done much more efficently and humanely by alternative means. Some ignore this evidence and want to enjoy the chase. Edit: as I suspected, I have just had an email from my MP who has said he is going to ignore me, stick to the Tory line and vote for the statutory instrument. I have informed him, politely, that I am hugely disappointed but not surprised.

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I think if I were a fox I'd rather take my chances with a pack of dogs than with a farmer and his rifle. Something else that occurs to me from the pest-control point of view; wouldn't the fox population have been controlled, to a certain extent, by the wolves that used to roam Britain; until these were hunted (culled?) to extinction by man? As for the 'pest-control' activities of a hunt, I'd say these were negligible, and not a good justification for continued fox-hunting. And some of the existing laws seem a bit strange to me; only two dogs can be used (in England) to flush foxes but the dogs mustn't be allowed to kill the fox... ...but hunts can use a bird-of-prey to kill a fox once it has been flushed into the open! How long does it take a bird-of-prey to kill a fox? Is that somehow more humane?
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I was a horseman and have owned a couple of horses. I kept them at a riding school and they could use them to ofset my livery charges(which were not insignificant) on the understanding they were not used for hunting. Two reasons,one I am violently opposed to hunting and two if you saw the way some of them came back it was an eye opener. Cuts from barbed wire and falls,lame and completely worn out. Who got the vets bill yes the owner. Who said "The unspeakable pursuing the uneatable"?
Profile picture for user Bruce

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The Tories know very well that the only chance they have of repealing, or amending the act is to jntroduce it as soon as possible whilst their support is at its strongest. If, as is likely, it doesn't get through, it will be dropped and we won't hear of it again in this parliament. However, looking at the mess that is the current Labour Party, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a higher majority next time round, at which point they may well go for a full repeal.
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And now the bloody SNP are cynically using the vote to demonstrate their new-found 'muscle' That referendum result was an unmitigated disaster for England. Moggy
Profile picture for user Meddle

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And now the bloody SNP are cynically using the vote to demonstrate their new-found 'muscle' That referendum result was an unmitigated disaster for England.
Then your lot shouldn't have done such a good job of convincing us to stay in the union. :stupid: In fairness, the SNP must be enjoying their muscle down South, as they are doing a dismal job up here. Hospital waiting times have increased under their rule and school attainment levels have gone down. The new centralised police force up here carry out stop-and-searches four times more frequently than the UK average but fail to report to a serious car crash, allowing two people to die as a result. The SNP's firebrand 'cybernat' trolls are slowly turning in on themselves as well. Despite all of this the SNP claim, somehow, that all of this would be solved if Scotland was granted FFA, despite the abhorrent maths that littered the white paper. No wonder Nippy was stuffing her face with Strawberries at Wimbledon this week... anything that happens down south is a nice distraction from the bickering up here. Scoring a point against the pro-hunting crowd will no doubt further fuel the anti-English mob.
Profile picture for user Moggy C

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Then your lot shouldn't have done such a good job of convincing us to stay in the union. :stupid:
Nothing to do with me. I was encouraging a 'Yes' vote. Next time maybe all the UK will get a voice? Moggy

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There are a number of issues here. The Tories knew, despite their manefesto commitment, that they would never get a repeal through a free vote in the commons as things stand. So they tried to use a Statutory Instrument which many people, including at least 40 of their own MP's felt was a bit sneaky and underhand, and so failed to get a substantial majority of their own MP's to toe the line- it was touch and go even before the SNP put their oar in. Even under the EVEL proposals that they have had to kick down the road because, again, they knew they may not get a majority as the proposals have at present a number of flaws that require further consultation, ALL MP's regardless of where their constituency is, would still have been eligible to vote on Statutory instruments Who has won on this one? Too soon to tell, but as has been said on one of the broadsheet websites, it makes Cameron's task of bringing through contentious UK wide legislation much more tricky, and will continue to do so even after EVEL. Will they force through an upgraded version of EVEL and then win a free vote on repeal of hunting in England and Wales? If the polls are right, most of the UK population do not want a return to Hunting as it was pre the Act, and those with slim majorities may do the right thing. The biggest loosers may well be the hunting lobby in Scotland who are probably seething, as it may well be that the law there is amended to fall in line with England and Wales, thus removing one of the arguments for the Statutory Instrument that just failed to take off.

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Ah well, they've dropped the idea now, Cameron knew he was onto a looser. Independence for England I say !!