By: AlanR
- 24th March 2016 at 08:26Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is no doubt that if we leave the EU, it won't be a seamless departure.
Hopefully it will be worth a few headaches, to get back in charge of our own destiny ?
It's the long term prospects that really matter, not what might happen over the next four or five years.
By: charliehunt
- 24th March 2016 at 10:34Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Your last sentence is spot on. And anyone who seriously believes in the long term success of the EU is living in cloud cuckoo land. Look at what it has come to in the last twenty years and extrapolate that overbloated autocracy over the next twenty years and total collapse is inevitable. So we need to get out now before we find ourselves having to escape the doomed enterprise, when it's too late.
By: John Green
- 24th March 2016 at 16:48Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Shorty01
Don't be afraid to take risks. That, among some other desirable traits is what made this country the leading trading nation. No economic grouping anywhere in the world, the EU included, can afford to ignore a soon-to-be market of 70,000,000 consumers.
Whether we like it, or understand it, or not, because of the actions of its seriously misguided politicians, Europe is in turmoil. The millions at present seeking economic benefit will multiply. Already I live in a country that in some parts I do not anymore recognise. Some may say it doesn't matter. I say that it does. I live in a country in Northern Europe that subscribes to a set of values, habits and culture that is being eroded by the impact of peoples arriving from other cultures and determined to impose their values. This is leading to a backlash that others have long forecast.
We can do nothing about this just as long as this country is governed from Brussels. And that, is the single most fundamental argument for leaving the EU; sovereignty ! Control of our destiny in all aspects. Nothing else matters. As for your claim that 'we're not big enough to go it alone'. How on earth did we manage to build the world's premier trading nation over the last three centuries ? We weren't part of any significant trading blocks. We had trade agreements and they sufficed exactly as they would to-day if we left the EU.
Have some confidence in your country and its capacity for innovation, invention and application. We need to remind ourselves of what we once were. Independent, fearless, entrepreneurial, adaptable. To paraphrase someone, 'we have nothing to fear, but fear itself'.
By: Meddle
- 24th March 2016 at 21:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't be afraid to take risks. That, among some other desirable traits is what made this country the leading trading nation. No economic grouping anywhere in the world, the EU included, can afford to ignore a soon-to-be market of 70,000,000 consumers.
You sound like Alex Salmond towards the middle of 2014. Are LBC radio going to offer you a prime time slot in a few years?
By: Shorty01
- 24th March 2016 at 22:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just adding my experiences into the discussion as I felt they are relevant.
I have confidence in my country to innovate & invent, I spend some of my time on Outreach sessions talking to schools about the spacecraft we build, trying to inspire the next generation into STEM subjects so they get to innovate and invent. It is heartening to see the children's enthusiasm.
The fact that we are discussing this on an aircraft forum implies most people here have some interest in STEM, but in my experience, a significant portion of the country doesn't give a stuff. I feel like the BEF fighting a rearguard action at Dunkirk sometimes defending British engineering. I feel like a curiosity, "oh you're an engineer, do we still do that in this country ?" is the response. Maybe I live too near the London commuter belt. I can rant about this for hours so I'll stop there as it's getting off topic.
By: AlanR
- 25th March 2016 at 10:18Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I spend some of my time on Outreach sessions talking to schools about the spacecraft we build, trying to inspire the next generation into STEM subjects so they get to innovate and invent. It is heartening to see the children's enthusiasm.
I have a friend (a retired engineer) who belongs to a group who do a similar thing in Essex. He goes to schools explaining to
teachers, how to get the children interested in various aspects of engineering, and sitting in on lessons to answer questions
from pupils.
By: J Boyle
- 25th March 2016 at 13:57Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It sounds like the EU needs some PR in the UK.
After the Brussels attack there was a news item about the EU security dept warning Belgium about a possible threat. Now, an overall pan European security service is something where the EU could "earn its keep".
In other words, quit focusing on the shape of bananas and second guessing national parliaments (and thus giving legitimacy to those who rightly fear for their nation's sovereignty) to focus on its basic mission of trade and sectors like security where it can be of real use.
By: John Green
- 25th March 2016 at 17:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JB
The EU is in a 'flat spin'. Total panic is the order of the day. Security ? Don't make me laugh. They simply do not know what to do with the problem of their own making.
And now ? Visa free access to the EU for another 80,000,000 Moslems is the latest wheeze.
How do the EU manage a credible security taskforce? Which language will they use ? At the moment instructions, orders and the like will have to be issued in all the languages of the various member states. How will that work given the need for an instant response to most security breaches.
Commonality of methods ? I'm gurgling with mirth ! Angela pulls the string and the rest dance to her tune. She is the one that has invited 80,000,000 Turks into Europe.
By: charliehunt
- 7th April 2016 at 05:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some crumbs of comfort for sure but with under a third of the Dutch electorate bothering to turn out it is hardly an earth shattering result. And it begs an Interesting question - I wonder what our turn out will be in June.........
By: AlanR
- 7th April 2016 at 09:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Historically it's the younger generation who are less likely to vote.
Those who have never been in a non-EU UK, and are more likely to
be influenced by "project fear".
Just to add. When the Stay In leaflet arrives here, it will be posted back to No.10
New
Posts: 1,071
By: MrBlueSky
- 7th April 2016 at 10:51Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John.
Turkey are still in denial about the Armenian Genocide they started on 24 April 1915...
By: trekbuster
- 7th April 2016 at 12:59Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes I have, and they make what I have seen of the one we are getting from the govt. look like Shakespeare -hysterical poorly written twaddle full of grammatical errors is an understatement.
Having seen what has been on the news today, I think I'll send my copy of the HMG pamphlet to Liam Fox as he clearly hasn't read it.
Posts: 4,996
By: AlanR - 24th March 2016 at 08:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
There is no doubt that if we leave the EU, it won't be a seamless departure.
Hopefully it will be worth a few headaches, to get back in charge of our own destiny ?
It's the long term prospects that really matter, not what might happen over the next four or five years.
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 24th March 2016 at 10:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Your last sentence is spot on. And anyone who seriously believes in the long term success of the EU is living in cloud cuckoo land. Look at what it has come to in the last twenty years and extrapolate that overbloated autocracy over the next twenty years and total collapse is inevitable. So we need to get out now before we find ourselves having to escape the doomed enterprise, when it's too late.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 24th March 2016 at 16:48 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Shorty01
Don't be afraid to take risks. That, among some other desirable traits is what made this country the leading trading nation. No economic grouping anywhere in the world, the EU included, can afford to ignore a soon-to-be market of 70,000,000 consumers.
Whether we like it, or understand it, or not, because of the actions of its seriously misguided politicians, Europe is in turmoil. The millions at present seeking economic benefit will multiply. Already I live in a country that in some parts I do not anymore recognise. Some may say it doesn't matter. I say that it does. I live in a country in Northern Europe that subscribes to a set of values, habits and culture that is being eroded by the impact of peoples arriving from other cultures and determined to impose their values. This is leading to a backlash that others have long forecast.
We can do nothing about this just as long as this country is governed from Brussels. And that, is the single most fundamental argument for leaving the EU; sovereignty ! Control of our destiny in all aspects. Nothing else matters. As for your claim that 'we're not big enough to go it alone'. How on earth did we manage to build the world's premier trading nation over the last three centuries ? We weren't part of any significant trading blocks. We had trade agreements and they sufficed exactly as they would to-day if we left the EU.
Have some confidence in your country and its capacity for innovation, invention and application. We need to remind ourselves of what we once were. Independent, fearless, entrepreneurial, adaptable. To paraphrase someone, 'we have nothing to fear, but fear itself'.
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 24th March 2016 at 21:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You sound like Alex Salmond towards the middle of 2014. Are LBC radio going to offer you a prime time slot in a few years?
Posts: 718
By: Shorty01 - 24th March 2016 at 22:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just adding my experiences into the discussion as I felt they are relevant.
I have confidence in my country to innovate & invent, I spend some of my time on Outreach sessions talking to schools about the spacecraft we build, trying to inspire the next generation into STEM subjects so they get to innovate and invent. It is heartening to see the children's enthusiasm.
The fact that we are discussing this on an aircraft forum implies most people here have some interest in STEM, but in my experience, a significant portion of the country doesn't give a stuff. I feel like the BEF fighting a rearguard action at Dunkirk sometimes defending British engineering. I feel like a curiosity, "oh you're an engineer, do we still do that in this country ?" is the response. Maybe I live too near the London commuter belt. I can rant about this for hours so I'll stop there as it's getting off topic.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 25th March 2016 at 09:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
You do me too much honour ! I prefer it when you revert to Chuckle brother mode and slag me off.
Salmond ? Scottish working class hero - or, so it is said.
Posts: 4,996
By: AlanR - 25th March 2016 at 10:18 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I have a friend (a retired engineer) who belongs to a group who do a similar thing in Essex. He goes to schools explaining to
teachers, how to get the children interested in various aspects of engineering, and sitting in on lessons to answer questions
from pupils.
Posts: 9,821
By: J Boyle - 25th March 2016 at 13:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It sounds like the EU needs some PR in the UK.
After the Brussels attack there was a news item about the EU security dept warning Belgium about a possible threat. Now, an overall pan European security service is something where the EU could "earn its keep".
In other words, quit focusing on the shape of bananas and second guessing national parliaments (and thus giving legitimacy to those who rightly fear for their nation's sovereignty) to focus on its basic mission of trade and sectors like security where it can be of real use.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 25th March 2016 at 17:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
JB
The EU is in a 'flat spin'. Total panic is the order of the day. Security ? Don't make me laugh. They simply do not know what to do with the problem of their own making.
And now ? Visa free access to the EU for another 80,000,000 Moslems is the latest wheeze.
How do the EU manage a credible security taskforce? Which language will they use ? At the moment instructions, orders and the like will have to be issued in all the languages of the various member states. How will that work given the need for an instant response to most security breaches.
Commonality of methods ? I'm gurgling with mirth ! Angela pulls the string and the rest dance to her tune. She is the one that has invited 80,000,000 Turks into Europe.
Posts: 268
By: steven_wh - 7th April 2016 at 01:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
64 Per Cent Of Dutch Referendum Voters Reject EU, 32 Per Cent Turnout
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/04/06/margin-error-turnout-29-dutch-voters-overwhelmingly-reject-eu-64-per-cent/
Looks like the Dutch have sent a strong message to the EU - 'no' to expansion into Ukraine.
Gives us a pointer to our own referendum on June 23rd.
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 7th April 2016 at 05:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Some crumbs of comfort for sure but with under a third of the Dutch electorate bothering to turn out it is hardly an earth shattering result. And it begs an Interesting question - I wonder what our turn out will be in June.........
Posts: 4,996
By: AlanR - 7th April 2016 at 09:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Historically it's the younger generation who are less likely to vote.
Those who have never been in a non-EU UK, and are more likely to
be influenced by "project fear".
Just to add. When the Stay In leaflet arrives here, it will be posted back to No.10
Posts: 1,071
By: MrBlueSky - 7th April 2016 at 10:51 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi John.
Turkey are still in denial about the Armenian Genocide they started on 24 April 1915...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYV8laEB5E
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 7th April 2016 at 10:58 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
[QUOTE=~Alan~;2305233
Just to add. When the Stay In leaflet arrives here, it will be posted back to No.10[/QUOTE]
That's two copies they'll get back, then!!:D
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 7th April 2016 at 12:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
I send all the probrexist stuff back to senders.......without a stamp
Posts: 11,141
By: charliehunt - 7th April 2016 at 12:31 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well at least you've had some!:p
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 7th April 2016 at 12:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes I have, and they make what I have seen of the one we are getting from the govt. look like Shakespeare -hysterical poorly written twaddle full of grammatical errors is an understatement.
Having seen what has been on the news today, I think I'll send my copy of the HMG pamphlet to Liam Fox as he clearly hasn't read it.
Without a stamp again of course
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 7th April 2016 at 13:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
64% ? That is a heck of a margin !
MrBlueSky
Yes, genocide in which the culprits have never properly been brought to book.
Posts: 6,535
By: John Green - 7th April 2016 at 13:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Trekkie,
Very obviously the product of State school 'education' !
Posts: 851
By: trekbuster - 7th April 2016 at 13:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes, Johnnnie,
Liam Fox was state educated