"The Malvinas are Argentine," said Vice President Scioli...

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20 years 5 months

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War is war, declared or not. And after reading what you have posted you of all people know that a Serviceman dying in the service of his Country is just as dead as one killed in a police action in NI, Kenya, or in the horrors of Afghanistan or Iraq.

I can't see the loss of a thousand lives as a 'spat', nor can I see why you would wish to have an 'affectionate' term for the conflicy in which you lost a member of your family.

This is obviously a misunderstanding regarding your usage of the term 'spat' and therefore I apologise, in the circumstances, for any offence caused to you.

Regards,

kev35

I come from a military family. My spoken attitude is still guided by the atmosphere I grew up in. Squaddie "banter" can often be in your face and seemingly insensitive. Their way to deal with difficult situations I supose.
My dad was in the Army and I grew up around soldiers and their banter. Even after being on the civilian side of life for 14 years this April 13th I still find it hard to shake of my squaddie vernacular. Its hard to shake of that which you accept as normal in your formative years.

Only recently have I begun to realise how may issues this has caused in the past. So I too apologise if I seemed insensitive.

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Moderation Moment

Thank you very much, Kev and Sandy.

Gentlemen, both..... :)

GA

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24 years 2 months

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Never mind - spineless Blair and the rest of his equally-spineless crew will back down to the Argies and give them what they want.

It's time we had a proper government which put the interests of Britain first for a change.

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24 years 2 months

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Never mind - spineless Blair and the rest of his equally-spineless crew will back down to the Argies and give them what they want.

It's time we had a proper government which put the interests of Britain first for a change.

Have I missed something?

I haven't heard Blair say that the Falklands is being abandoned to Argentinian control?

And why this constant harping with dissatisfaction at the Government? We have an elected Government, I believe you are of age to exercise your vote. Or would you prefer that we become a right wing dictatorship just to satisfy you? If you're not happy please don't bleat and whine about it. You could stand for Parliament as an Independent Candidate. Why not give it a go? With your political views you would be guaranteed a strong element of support from every ultra right wing crank in your prospective constituency.

Regards,

kev35

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24 years 2 months

Posts: 16,832

And why this constant harping with dissatisfaction at the Government? We have an elected Government

I am not one to harp on the topic here Kev, frankly it bores me.

But the problem with our electoral system is that every four years we get the chance to vote between two equally bad lots of dishonest, amoral, lying and self-serving politicos based on stated manifestos that we all know will gleefully be abandoned, with never a backward glance, the moment the votes have been counted.

I find it frustrating in the extreme.

I hate most of what Blair and his cronies have done over the last few years, Brown's virtual destruction of the pension system possibly being of more concern to me than to you at the moment ;) But I can't see Cameron being any better, whilst the libdems are just an irrelevant sideshow.

It's frustration at our impotence to find somebody, anybody, who will govern in the long term interests of the country.

Frankly I'd rather get rid of the lot of them, give full power back to the monarchy and let Charles have a go.

He may be weird, but at least he means well.

Moggy

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24 years 2 months

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Have I missed something?

I haven't heard Blair say that the Falklands is being abandoned to Argentinian control?

And why this constant harping with dissatisfaction at the Government? We have an elected Government, I believe you are of age to exercise your vote. Or would you prefer that we become a right wing dictatorship just to satisfy you? If you're not happy please don't bleat and whine about it. You could stand for Parliament as an Independent Candidate. Why not give it a go? With your political views you would be guaranteed a strong element of support from every ultra right wing crank in your prospective constituency.

Regards,

kev35

Beckett is bending over backwards to accommodate the Argentinians, much to the disgust of Falklands veterans, that is not right-wing propaganda, that is what was reported in just about every UK daily newspaper earlier this week.

As far as exercising my vote goes, I was one of the many who did not vote this shower of a government in for another term.

And as for standing as a candidate, that is exactly what I am doing on 3rd May, albeit in a local election. I am not an Independent, I am proudly wearing the colours of my Party, which openly opposes British troops being deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan and believes in keeping the Falklands British.

And please do not call us cranks, how many of us do you know personally, rather than what the media says about us?

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I have had the grave misfortune to come into contact with significant numbers of people with extreme right wing views, enough contact to encourage me to tar all with the same brush.

Would you care to name the Party you are standing for? I suspect it to be the BNP given the particularly vicious political attitude you have displayed here on the past, your political stance generally being somewhere slightly to the right of Genghis Khan and just to the left of Hitler.

I applaud the fact that you are standing for election, not enough people, including myself, have enough courage in their actions, but I doubt that you or I would ever agree on a single issue, other than perhaps the immediate withdrawal of British service personnel from Iraq and Afghanistan. I suspect that that would be for differing reasons though.

Regards,

kev35

Member for

24 years 2 months

Posts: 4,508

Ah yes the BNP, according to their manifesto, they would scrap Eurofighter and replace it with a wholly British designed and built design, now there's a great utilisation of tax payer money.

Other great and in some cases contradictory ideas:

1. We will bring our troops back from Germany and withdraw from NATO, since recent political developments make both commitments obsolete.
I thought NATO was fighting the war in Afghanistan against a 21st Century threat ????

2. We will also withdraw all British troops with immediate effect from Iraq. We will never again involve British troops in any more American 'wars for oil' or neo-con adventures on behalf of the Zionist government of Israel.
What about British wars for oil, I guess once petrol hits £10.00 a gallon and their new and improved armed force grinds to a halt they will rethink this policy.

3. We will refuse to risk British lives in meddling 'peace-keeping' missions in parts of the world where no British interests are at stake - a position of armed neutrality.
Ah so we are becoming Switzerland with out the Alps and cowbells. Chocolate any one ????

4. We will restore the county regimental system and withdraw from the European Union plans for an European Army.
Yep, we will become Switzerland.

5. We will invest in creating an integrated defence structure that can respond to all 21st Century threats.
See clause 1, I thought the idea was to hide behind our Armed Neutrality.

6. If Britain is attacked by rogue states or terrorists then we will respond with appropriate force until the threat is eradicated.
As long as we don't have to travel to another part of the world.

7. The compulsory National Service system discussed elsewhere in this Manifesto would begin at the age of 18 with a period of basic training in the army. This would include full training with the citizens' assault rifle. Conscientious objectors who refuse to undertake military service would be allocated other constructive work for the community, but would not receive the citizen's right to be armed, or the right to vote.
Even though it has been proven that a volunteer and professional armed service is much more effective that a conscripted force, plus where is the money coming from, as they advocate scrapping income tax ?

8. Individuals would be free to refuse to undertake any form of National Service, but such a refusal to serve the community for the common good would result in their not being entitled to free places at university, on training courses or self-employment schemes. Whereas some other politicians mouth platitudes about there being “no rights without responsibilities”, we mean it.
So the UK will have a bloody big army, with no one to fight because they won't travel, those who won't fight will be unemployed and uneducated.

Ill conceived policies from a bunch of Right Wing idiots. Their website has a message from someone in Jersey who is slating the fact that local health pamphlets have been written in Portuguese as well as Polish. His claim being that they should be written in the national language only. Unfortunately in Jersey it is still French, so about 70% of the population would not be able to read anything at all.

To say I abhor everything the BNP stand for is an understatement.

Member for

19 years 11 months

Posts: 10,160

Moderator Message

I've heard of thread creep, but this is verging on the ridiculous! :eek:

Can we return to something roughly approximating to the original topic please?

If anyone really does feel an overwhelming urge to discuss life at the outer margins of political respectability, perhaps a new thread might be in order?

Cheers

GA

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Ooh Grey you are so cultured......................:p :) :D

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18 years 2 months

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Having been 'Down Saaf' twice in the last 20 years and met lots of the locals, the place is British. End of story. The Argies should be glad of that as thanks to us they haven't been led by a bunch of incompetent military thugs for the last 20 years.

Member for

18 years 9 months

Posts: 13,432

Having been 'Down Saaf' twice in the last 20 years and met lots of the locals, the place is British. End of story. The Argies should be glad of that as thanks to us they haven't been led by a bunch of incompetent military thugs for the last 20 years.

Time changes things. People on the ground change things.

In 1833, I'd have deplored our illegal seizure of Argentinas sovereign territory. After 149 years of continuous occupation, with no more than occasional grumbles from Argentina (they maintained a formal claim, but did nothing whatsoever to press it), in 1982 I was firmly in favour of getting the islands back when Galtieri & his cronies sought to buttress their tottering & bankrupt corrupt junta by a short victorious war.

BTW, Maggie & her foreign minister (I forget - who was it?) should have been drummed out of office, & the entire staff of the Foreign Office section dealing with affairs in that part of the world summarily dismissed, without pensions, for their blindness. Every bit of Argentinean pressure had been followed by a British step back for the previous couple of years. I realise that British actions were taken without regard to what Argentina did, but that merely demonstrates the abysmal incompetence of all concerned. They should have noticed the signals Argentina was sending. Taking away the right of the islanders to settle in Britain & giving them downgraded citizenship; announcing the withdrawal of the South Atlantic patrol ship; shelving the Shackleton report. And so on . . . . Galtieri et al thought they were having a dialogue, & the word from London was "We don't give a wet fart about the islands, & will back down".

Member for

19 years 11 months

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....BTW, Maggie & her foreign minister (I forget - who was it?) should have been drummed out of office....
He was Lord Carrington and, being a gentleman of the old school, he accepted responsibility for the whole mess and promptly resigned from office.

They just don't make them like that any more. Can you imagine any present-day UK politician - of whatever flavour - acting in that manner? :rolleyes:

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18 years 9 months

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He was Lord Carrington and, being a gentleman of the old school, he accepted responsibility for the whole mess and promptly resigned from office.

They just don't make them like that any more. Can you imagine any present-day UK politician - of whatever flavour - acting in that manner? :rolleyes:

Good grief, so it was! I should have remembered that - I'd just moved out of my parents house in Carrington Road. :o You're right, they don't make them like that any more. An honourable man. And I agree. I can't imagine any of the current lot following suit. He was one of the last.

Member for

17 years 10 months

Posts: 5

The diplomatic way is the only way that we must follow to solve this dispute. The successive Argentine governments not to present/display serious and sustentables negotiations to the British governments.
The Falklands/Malvinas are a very deep feeling for all we, but this does not have to turn aside to us of only feasible means of resolution: the understanding and respect between both societies, English and Argentinean.

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17 years 10 months

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Touching tribute to deads of the General Belgrano cruise.

Emotivo homenaje a los muertos del crucero General Belgrano

La ceremonia se realizó en alta mar, cerca de donde navegó el buque antes de ser atacado por el submarino inglés Conqueror, con un saldo de 323 víctimas. El acto fue encabezado por la ministra de Defensa, Nilda Garré, quien criticó el papel "irresponsable y aventurero" de la Junta Militar en la Guerra de Malvinas.
La ministra de Defensa, Nilda Garré, encabezó hoy en alta mar un homenaje a las víctimas de la guerra de las Malvinas y, en especial, a los muertos durante el hundimiento del crucero General Belgrano. En su discurso, criticó especialmente el papel de la Junta Militar frente al inicio y desarrollo del conflicto bélico.

La ceremonia fue cerca del lugar donde el hundimiento del crucero arrastró hacia la muerte a 323 marinos argentinos. Garré habló frente a los familiares de los muertos, quienes se habían embarcado en el buque ARA Hércules para participar de la ceremonia de la que estuvo además el jefe del Estado Mayor de la Armada, almirante Jorge Godoy.

La ministra rindió tributo a "nuestros heroicos compatriotas muertos en el hundimiento del crucero General Belgrano, a nuestros aviadores, a los que lucharon cuerpo a cuerpo en el territorio de las islas y a todos los 649 caídos" durante los combates.

La funcionaria había llegado el mediodía a la ciudad de Ushuaia desde donde embarcó en el buque Hércules para dirigirse hacia la zona de operaciones del crucero, que fue atacado el 2 de mayo de 1982 por el submarino nuclear inglés Conqueror.

Esta acción bélica, realizada fuera de la zona de exclusión decida unilateralmente por Gran Bretaña, marcó el fin de las negociaciones que se había llevado a cabo desde el 2 de abril, y a partir de entonces la guerra se transformó en un hecho inevitable.

Durante el acto, Garré afirmó que la Junta Militar de 1982 inició las acciones de recuperación de las islas por el deseo "de perduración de su propio poder ilegal y genocida". Luego, sostuvo que esa actitud fue una "indecente fuga hacia adelante, una decisión irresponsable y aventurera, que obvió consideraciones de política internacional, de compromisos diplomáticos, de alineamientos de importantes países con el bloque enemigo".

En este sentido, "el alineamiento de EE.UU. con Gran Bretaña, que también tuvo el aval europeo, y el apoyo de la dictadura pinochetista a nuestro rival".

Además, la funcionaria criticó con vehemencia el tratamiento "especialmente cruel" brindado a los soldados argentinos "que fueron traídos al continente, entre gallos y medianoche, como si fueran responsables de la tragedia y no sus víctimas".

En tanto, tras repasar los pormenores del hundimiento y elogiar el trabajo conjunto de las fuerzas, Godoy consideró que en el presente "cobra renovada vigencia el objetivo permanente e irrenunciable del pueblo argentino, incorporado a nuestra Constitución Nacional en 1994: la recuperación de las Islas Malvinas, Georgias del Sur y Sandwich del Sur".

Luego del discurso de la ministra fueron lanzadas coronas de flores al mar en homenaje a los muertos durante el hundimiento.

http://www.clarin.com/diario/2007/05/04/um/m-01412379.htm

The ceremony on the high seas, near where naveg the ship before being attacked by the submarine Conqueror, with a balance of 323 dead.
The act was headed by the Minister of Defense, Nilda Garré, that critic “the irresponsible and adventurous” paper of the Military Junta in the War of the Falklands.
The minister of Defense, Nilda Garré, head today on the high seas a tribute to victims of the war of the Falklands and, in special, to deads during the collapse of the ARA General Belgrano. In its speech, critic specially the paper of the Military junta front at the beginning and development of the belic conflict.
The ceremony was near the place where the collapse of the cruise towards the death to 323 Argentine sailors. Garré speak in front of the relatives of the deads, that are embarked in the ship ARA Hércules to participate in the ceremony of which the head of the Naval staff was adems, admiral Jorge Godoy. The minister tribute to “our heroic compatriots died in the collapse of the General Belgrano cruise, to our aviators, to whom they fought all 649 and hand-to-hand in the territory of the cados islands” during the combats. The civil employee arrived half day at the city of Ushuaia from where embarc in the Hércules ship to go towards the air side of the cruise, that was attacked the 2 of May of 1982 by the nuclear submarine Conqueror. This action made outside the zone of exclusion decides unilaterally by UK, marc the aim of the negotiations that carried out from the 2 of April, and from then the war transform in an inevitable fact. During the act, Garré afirm that the Military junta of 1982 init the actions of recovery of the islands by the desire “of perduracy of its own one to be able illegal and genocida”. Soon, it maintained that that attitude was a “indecente flight forwards, one decisin irresponsible and adventurous, that considerations of international political, diplomtics commitments, alignments of important you happen with the enemy block”.
In this sense, “the alignment of EE.UU with UK, that had European endorsement, and the support of the pinochetista dictatorship to our rival”. The civil employee critic with vehemence “the specially cruel” treatment offered to the Argentine soldiers “who were bring to the continent, between roosters and midnight, as if they were responsible for the tragedy and not his victims”.
In as much, after reviewing the details of the collapse and praising the joint work of the forces, Godoy to consider that in the present “the permanent and cannot be waived objective of the Argentine town receives renewed use, incorporated to our National Constitution in 1994: recovery of the Falklands Islands, Georgias of the South and Sandwich of the South”.
After the speech of the minister crowns from flowers to the sea in tribute to deads during the collapse were sent.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t75/chimango_photos/garre.jpg

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Well... if anything this might help slow down the silly unjustified defence draw downs.... for ....oh a month or so until it goes out of the short attention span cycle of politicos. :diablo: