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By: - 5th April 2010 at 20:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Vulcan ECM
Hi Rich
Visit VTST website forum then engineering then winter servicing on page 4 is the answer to your question tried to link but didn't work.
Jon
By: - 5th April 2010 at 20:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just in case there arn't any experts lingering tonight and you want a quick vague answer, I believe it is a mounting platform for the Red Shrimp jamming kit. I have also see pics of Vulcans fiited with this fairing fitted between the engines on both sides of the aircraft, not sure what the additional one did.
Edit, was wondering if the platform was fitted on both sides when some Vulcans became K.2 tankers, ie when the HDU filled the ECM void in the tail cone and maybe displaced this equipment onto the port side engines area?
By: - 5th April 2010 at 20:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or if you're really struggling you could always visit the Tribute to the V-Force event at NAM on April 24 & 25, 2010! :D
By: - 5th April 2010 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Right, you got me interested (remembering the fairings from the Airfix kit!), it seems that the fairings were fitted under both sets of engine nacelles when the aircraft was 'blue Steel' capable, carrying slightly different versions of 'Red Shrimp' ECM kit underneath each wing.
Definately seen it fitted to tankers, so maybe it was an easy way of finding a home for the displaced tailcone mounted ECM kit by reinstating the port fairing?
By: - 5th April 2010 at 20:57 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks for the answers - obvious when you know!
It now begs the further question as to why the need to fit another flat surface to the bottom of the aicraft when there is so much space already.
I spotted the panel on the Vulcan in the cold war museum at Cosford this afternoon during a wander around waiting for the weather to become flyable (incidentally, it didn't!).
The panel on the Cosford aircraft had no evidence of any external aerials or even disused mounting points but the entire panel was shiny unpainted metal. Is it possible that the panel itself forms a transmitter for the ECM gear and hence is a separate item of tuned size rather than just a section of airframe?
Cheers
Rich
By: - 5th April 2010 at 21:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Blimey, from memory there were two or three half dome type shapes facing down from the flat surface, along with a blade aerial, however the additional port one seems absolutely flush.
I would guess it wasn't fitted to the wing structure for the reasons you say, but also to avoid changing the tank structures etc. Where it was mounted seems a conveniant place for something that could be fitted and removed comparatively easily.
You would think though that the ECM kit would take a right bashing from two Olympus' screeching away right next to it!
By: - 5th April 2010 at 21:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As previously mentioned, the starboard inter-engine fairing was used to mount the Red Shrimp and L Band aerials. The transmitters themselves were in the ECM bay in the tail cone. It is easier to mount the aerials on an unstressed panel rather than the aircraft skin. IIRC there was a NACA intake at the front of the panel for cooling. I suspect that the aerials and associated transmitters may have been removed when the aircraft were converted to the tanker role.
exmpa
By: - 5th April 2010 at 21:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Would it be possible that Cosford's example has been reskinned and awaiting repaint perhaps?
Or is it a port panel fitted on the stbd side?
Looking through pictures again it seems the fitting of the port panel is fairly arbitery, ie some Blue Steel aircraft have both panels, but some don't, and some much later aircraft have both panels fitted, both B.2s and K.s, any idea on the fit of these exmpa?
By: - 5th April 2010 at 21:28 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They are indeed ECM plates, one between the starboard engines was the norm. Some came from the factory with the extra one, and some sprouted an extra one under the port engines during service. Not all Blue Steel a/c had the extra plate, of those that did some had extra aerials on the extra plate, some didn't. Those that had extra aerials lost them when Blue Steel was pulled. And not all non-Blue Steel aircraft didn't have twin ECM plates. Seems the fleet was a complete hotch-potch of mod level, there is no fleet-wide 'standard' fit.
Have I confused you enough to take my Vulcan anorak off yet?!
(With thanks to Craig Bulman's concise vulcan tome)
By: - 5th April 2010 at 21:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Looking through pictures again it seems the fitting of the port panel is fairly arbitery, ie some Blue Steel aircraft have both panels, but some don't, and some much later aircraft have both panels fitted, both B.2s and K.s, any idea on the fit of these exmpa?
Last flew the aircraft in 1972, not a lot of knowledge of what the fits were after that.
exmpa
By: - 5th April 2010 at 22:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
It is called the counter poise panel, it was fitted on aircraft that carried the Blue Steel missile, it was to drop some of the aerials below the missile to reduce interferance.
No doubt I'll be completely ignored while you carry on debating what it's for but trust me, I'm right.:)
By: - 5th April 2010 at 23:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Indeed, as has been said, the aerial plate fit was almost random in nature. I didn't bother to check every aircraft to list the different fits applied to each aircraft in my Vulcan books as I didn't think anyone would be sufficiently interested to know! Craig Bulman listed them is his book though as has been said, so at least the information is there if anyone needs it.
As for the tankers, well the aerial fit differed simply because the aircraft chosen for tanker conversion were almost chosen by proxy - essentially a case of using the aircraft that were still in service - so the result was a fairly random batch of aircraft.
By: - 6th April 2010 at 09:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
From Craig Bulman's book;
Fitted with 2 plates, either from the factory or retrofitted during overhaul 64/65:
XL318-321
XL359
XL384-390
XL444-446
XM569-573
XM575-576
XM594-595
=24 a/c
The rest had only one plate.
Dunno if this adds to the confusion or helps at all
By: - 6th April 2010 at 09:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The proper title was Counterpoise plate as Bubble says, and were part of the ECM setup. Memory is vague but the hemispereical aerials were Red Shrimp and the later aerofoil one was I think Blue Diver.. However I could be wrong at this distance from the event.
John
Edit: Just looked up a couple of posts and yes the Aerofoil one was L Band
By: - 7th April 2010 at 10:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Chatting to a knoweldgeable colleage of mine he reckons that the flat, unpainted counterpoise panel is the transmitting element of the Green Palm, 100 watt VHF Comms Jammer.
Rich
By: - 7th April 2010 at 10:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Possibly aswel, but Red Shrimp was definately in there. I have noticed that sometimes the panel has a large distinctive blade aerial fitted, maybe part of that system?
I think it is as Blue and others have inferred, that there are various types and mods fitted.
Got to love the 'rainbow' code system!
By: - 7th April 2010 at 11:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Just for you, a link to a list of some radar/jamming gubbins, including some rainbow ones- Someone definately had a sense of humour with them codenames!
http://www.skomer.u-net.com/projects/radar.htm
The large blade aerial was L-band.
By: - 7th April 2010 at 11:34 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
The proper title was Counterpoise plate as Bubble says, and were part of the ECM setup. Memory is vague but the hemispereical aerials were Red Shrimp and the later aerofoil one was I think Blue Diver.
Blue Diver aerials were in the leading edges.
Chatting to a knoweldgeable colleage of mine he reckons that the flat, unpainted counterpoise panel is the transmitting element of the Green Palm, 100 watt VHF Comms Jammer.
Green Palm aerial was in the fin cap until it was replaced with the PWR that suceeded Blue Saga.
exmpa
By: - 24th November 2019 at 09:07 Permalink
It wasn't,as stated, Blue Steel only
Posts: 66
By: rich_hodgetts - 5th April 2010 at 20:08
Sorry if this is obvious.
Can anyone tell me why the starboard engines of the Vulcan have a flat cover underneath the jetpipes? All I can think of is that it covers some accessory stuff that is only fitted to engines 3 and 4.
Cheers
Rich