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By: 9th August 2010 at 22:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Most were destroyed, some were lost, a few remain in the hands of collectors. There are lists of claims, with time and place details, in various books and on assorted bits of the web.
Is there any particular incident you are after?
By: 10th August 2010 at 00:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I have a copy of a combat report for RAF BC mid feb '43 and was just wondering what the likelyhood of finding the jerry equivelant would be.....
By: 10th August 2010 at 10:08 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-The German archives perhaps?
By: 10th August 2010 at 10:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-cheers, I will give them a try.
M
By: 10th August 2010 at 10:36 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Depends on whether the German pilot claimed to have shot the bomber down. If he did, your chances of finding a match are pretty good. If not, it's hit-and-miss.
Might also want to try to find a copy of the Nachtjagd War Diaries and look at the relevant night.
You could also post date time & place (if known) here and I can have a squizz at the Usual Suspects for you.
By: 10th August 2010 at 10:59 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-ah, well its worth a go,
14th/15th Feb '43 over northern france, English channel
x 2Ju88s at 20.14hrs and x1 Fw190 maybe 4hrs later.
By: 10th August 2010 at 11:09 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Here's the claims list from Tony Woods for that night:
Night: 14-15. February 1943
R.A.F. Bomber Command: COLOGNE
14.02.43 Oblt. Manfred Meurer 3./NJG 1 Halifax 3 km. S. Veülin: 5.200 m. 20.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.116
14.02.43 Oblt. Manfred Meurer 3./NJG 1 Halifax Velrew: 4.700 m. 20.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.117
14.02.43 Ofw. Schönthier [sic) 2./NJG 1 Wellington 2 km. S. Meerhaus-Cheel: 4.800 m. 20.20 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.101
14.02.43 Ltn. Johannes Hager: 1 6./NJG 1 Halifax 51/2/9E2: 3.300 m. 20.42 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.50
14.02.43 Ofw. Fritz Schellwat 6./NJG 1 Stirling 3 km. N.N.W. Heiliberen: 4.500 m. 20.56 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.29
14.02.43 Oblt. Martin Bauer 3./NJG 1 Stirling 2 km. S.W. Boxmeer: 3.400 m. 21.05 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.118
14.02.43 Oblt. Manfred Meurer 3./NJG 1 Wellington bei Heel: 4.400 m. W. Roer Krs.Limburg 21.06 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
14.02.43 Oblt. Paul Gildner 1./NJG 1 Wellington 32/3/3G9 in See: 3.000 m. 21.47 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
14.02.43 Oblt. Paul Gildner 1./NJG 1 B-17 22/6/3E in See: - 22.07 Film C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr. -
The "C. 2027/I Anerk: Nr.116" bits are microfilm and confirmation number references. The "32/3/3G9" bits are position references.
Got a time for the encounter(s)?
Edit - the ones with "Anerk: Nr. - " are the ones in whcih the claims weren't confirmed, two of them were at sea.
By: 10th August 2010 at 12:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-cheers for that...
By: 10th August 2010 at 12:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-would the germans file combat reports even if they attacked or were attacked by an RAF bomber but observed no hits or suffered no damage like the RAF did?
M
By: 10th August 2010 at 12:24 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Have just seen the times in your post.
Times in the U.K. and the Reich were equal on that date, so 20.14 Goodie Time = 20.14 Baddie Time. Had trouble finding locations for Meurer's two claims, however another source says:
Velrew: 4700m [NNE Maastricht]. 14.2.1943 Oblt. Manfred. Meurer. 3. NJG 1. Halifax. 3km S. Veülin: 5200m [50km E. Eindhoven].
Same source says 2km S. Meerhaus-Cheel: 4800m [40km SE Eindhoven] for the other claim.
So not France anyway, and both his claims around that time were confirmed.
Not sure what to make of the Fw 190 thing - Hajo Hermann's Wild Sow boys didn't come into existence until during the Battle of Hamburg some months later.
So in any case it looks like your aircraft was not claimed as destroyed, may have been attacked by NJG 1.
By: 10th August 2010 at 12:27 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-would the germans file combat reports even if they attacked or were attacked by an RAF bomber but observed no hits or suffered no damage like the RAF did?M
I believe the answer is, that information would have been included in a Gefechtsbericht / Combat Report as a matter of course at debriefing, however they wouldn't have submitted a claim.
You might try to track down Marcel Hogenhuis, possibly over at the "German Night Fighter War 1939-1945" forum. He is The Researcher for NJG 1 stuff. If anyone has obscure documents from that unit, it's him.
By: 10th August 2010 at 12:42 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Times in the U.K. and the Reich were equal on that date, so 20.14 Goodie Time = 20.14 Baddie Time.
Can you tell me the relationship between British and German time at any time during the war?
(Edit: I was interested in the difference between British and German time on the night of 25/26 November 1943 and wondered if you had this information at your fingertips as it relates to the loss of Lancaster JB221 but when I checked the thread in question I found that you had already contributed.)
By: 10th August 2010 at 14:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-mhuxt
''Not sure what to make of the Fw 190 thing - Hajo Hermann's Wild Sow boys didn't come into existence until during the Battle of Hamburg some months later.''
I've found out that the earliest successfull use of single engined a/c in action against BC was on 25/26th of April 1940, according to the Bomber command war diaries by middlebrook and Everitt. albeit a '109, but anywho, I will try and get hold of Marcel, thanks for all the info sofar.
M
By: 10th August 2010 at 14:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-I've sent him an email so will see if he can help out further...?
cheers again.
By: 11th August 2010 at 18:50 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-Sorry to but in but can anyone shed any light on this from Luftwaffe records?
Whitley BD678 of 612 Sqn was attacked by a Ju88 whilst on patrol on 20 December 1942. The second pilot was injured.
This was a coastal command aircraft operating from Wick (I think it was Wick but may be wrong) so would have taken place over the North Sea somewhere.
I'm just wondering if any damage was inflicated on the Ju88?
By: 11th August 2010 at 22:10 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
-you will be if you get an answer before me :D ;)
Posts: 141
By: 50sqnwop/ag - 9th August 2010 at 18:59
Does anybody know where I could find the above at all?
tar
M