Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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Profile picture for user shepsair

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11 years 6 months

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P40

Hi Qattara,

That is good news. The family are aware though mentioned 5m/8km from site.

There cannot be too many other options if RAF buttons and parachute silk has been found.

The undercarriage is also an interesting one. It is reported that the undercarriage was fixed down but I suppose the question is there that if Copping knew he had to land whether he released the undercarriage lock or tried to retract?. Wondered why the other tyre was. It still seems as though the port leg did not retract though the starboard may well have. The port tailplane damage seems to indicate damage from the tyre/oleo.

Hopefully other collaborating evidence can be found when the DA gets to site. His watch, uniform, aircraft clock etc.

Sounds very positive indeed and well done with the search.

regards

Mark

Profile picture for user slicer

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17 years 9 months

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What an extraordinary, fascinating, and poignant story this has been. How on earth they managed to find those metal artefacts in the desert, and then his sparse remains, I don't know...but what a God-forsaken and sobering place it is.
It is so sad that the wreck has suffered from mindless vandalism, but it seems to be in good hands now.
Thanks for the huge effort put in by all responsible parties to obtain closure for Sgt Copping and his family.

Member for

8 years 11 months

Posts: 80

Thats very good news, such dedication from the ARID team to not only search in such a harsh place but to also have the satisfaction of finding a man missing for a few days short of seventy years well done to them. I must admit it was this story that led to me joining the forum and although I havent posted much i've followed this story from the start.

Louie

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8 years 11 months

Posts: 52

will be a good thing if we could notify his family, but we have no delivery
if someone can help us please write to [email]danielemoretto@libero.it[/email] or [email]info@arido.eu[/email]
However, Colonel Colling is informed (military attachè)

thank you
next days we will publish more other photos and news

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11 years 8 months

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Fantástico.

:D

Profile picture for user Soggy

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8 miles. Poor F/Sgt Copping, what a valiant effort to save himself, and it seems, he thought he knew the best way to go.

What on earth caused him to be down there, what a mystery.

Thank you for the report Quatara, and to the team for finding him.

Profile picture for user shepsair

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11 years 6 months

Posts: 282

P40 Copping

Hi Qattara,

I am in contact with the family. I have sent you an email.

It sounds positive but additional evidence can hopefully be obtained by DA Paul Collins at the embassy. I would hope ID tags, his watch (right wrist), band on his left wrist, shoes, aircraft clock?, First Air kit would be found near by??

Hopefully you are awaiting for the officials to undertake a more detailed search?

Confused by the parachute as the remains of the parachute were located near the plane? Also makes mention of red and white whereas I thought RAF parachutes were just white (someone knows different - please correct me).

Going on the B24 LBG crew, (albeit the time scale is different) I would expect a body against a protected rock outcrop to be mummified and complete but I am not an expert.

I really do hope it is F/Sgt Dennis Copping.

regards

Mark

Profile picture for user l.garey

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qattara: e-mail sent to you (not about the family) and PM to shepsair

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8 years 11 months

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sure, we have found as you can see on qattara.it, a button and a little copper plate (elliot's....) but we don't know if belong to copping like the bones.
piece of parachute is white (there are streaked with pale pink) like and compared with the similar near plane

The particular place we found bones is more different to the place of lady be good: rocky stones, sands no more
many animal footprints (fox or similar) not necessary the body mummified (eated from animals?)

We don't know if any object found there, as well as the bones, might belong to Copping

a stroke of luck

need, i presume, more expeditions for finding more things
maybe shoes or uniforms or femur are nearby but have not seen them ..
few days for mission!!!

Profile picture for user PeterVerney

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Very good news. Many thanks for your dedication to finding F/S Copping

Profile picture for user shepsair

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11 years 6 months

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Copping

Can I post a note of caution similar to the discovery, similar to when we were awaiting confirmation of the identity - before we knew it was ET574.

If human bones, this seem good evidence considering the remoteness.

I think more evidence is required in tying in the remains to Copping and ET574.

Trying not to put a downer on it.

I, more than anyone (except the family of course) hope it is confirmed.

regards

Mark

Profile picture for user l.garey

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I agree with Mark. Until either more bones are found to confirm age and sex, or until DNA examination is done, then we must be cautious, in spite of circumstantial evidence. This is not to minimise the importance of the latest advance.

I would echo Shepsair's note of caution.

We do know that a major part of the parachute canopy was by the P40. It also seems that there is nothing (yet) that is 'RAF specific' in terms of the finds. It also seems to me that we don't (yet) have formal confirmation that the bones are human.

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No matter the outcome, those guys have done amazing work

Profile picture for user paulmcmillan

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It also seems to me that we don't (yet) have formal confirmation that the bones are human.

Maybe nor formal confirmation but

on
http://www.qattara.it/60-173%20Kittyhawk.htm

it says (Google Transaction) "From my experience as a doctor does not slow to identify the remains as surely as humans: some costs, three or four vertebrae (7 th cervical, two thoracic and lumbar) integrates a left clavicle, a phalanx and metatarsal"

Which to me says one of the team was a Doctor and he could ID the bones as human

Member for

11 years 8 months

Posts: 138

Maybe nor formal confirmation but

on
http://www.qattara.it/60-173%20Kittyhawk.htm

it says (Google Transaction) "From my experience as a doctor does not slow to identify the remains as surely as humans: some costs, three or four vertebrae (7 th cervical, two thoracic and lumbar) integrates a left clavicle, a phalanx and metatarsal"

Which to me says one of the team was a Doctor and he could ID the bones as human

Human they seem to be, but no certain ID has been made of them being of Coppins. I think thats what the other people are cautioning about.

I agree that does seem to be what we are reading, Paul; ie a Doctor identified them as such.

I hope it is correct.

On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge we don't have a pathologist's confirmation and, as with the aircraft i/d, I think there should be some considerable caution.

It might just be me, but certain elements of this just seem a tad 'odd'. I suspect I am voicing what others might also think, too.

I also hope that the Italian flag has been removed from its tailplane 'flagpole'. Not anti-Italian, by any means,but........

I have just been trying to figure out the copper tag. It reminds me much of the weight tags fixed to old coal sacks - though I doubt the Bedouin have many coal deliveries! It is also marked Cad Cu (Copper Cadmium?) and a weight that looks to be 127 lbs. An odd thing to be with a flier or the P40. One assumes that it must have been something personal to the pilot (if associated at all with the P40 or the pilot) as it bears no AM stores reference. I realise this was a US built a/c, but did a UK based manufacturer supply parts to Curtis? If not, and if it is an AM piece of kit fitted to the P40, then wouldn't it have an AM stores reference? Certainly a curious mystery.

Profile picture for user l.garey

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A better translation:

Dalla mia esperienza di medico non tardo ad identificare i resti come sicuramente umani: qualche costa, tre quattro vertebre (7° cervicale, due toraciche e una lombare) una clavicola sinistra integra, un metatarso e falange.

From my experience as a medical doctor I did not take long to identify the remains as certainly human: a few ribs, four vertebrae (seventh cervical, two thoracic and one lumbar), a complete left clavicle, a metatarsal and a phalanx.

Says almost the same thing, and confirms that it is a doctor writing. I for one would like to see some pictures (not on the thread, but to me in private if the team agrees). I have sent an e-mail.

But, as I said before, we need more remains, and especially a DNA examination.

Laurence

Certainly a better translation. Thank you!

However....

I also note that the Italian website implies that this work was undertaken for the RAFM:

A five-day mission, three of which in the desert at 40 45 °, an impeccable organization with the support of partners SIWA PARADISE EXPEDITIONS allowed five ARIDO researchers to carry out the task entrusted by the Management Authority of the UK, the RAF Museum.

Thanks to SIWA PARADISE EXPEDITIONS, ITA

Something might be lost in translation there. Is it the management authority of the UK RAF Museum or the Mananagement Authority of the UK (Government???....although a quaint description thereof!) and the RAF Museum?

Profile picture for user l.garey

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Ah: let me look at the original