Flt Sgt Copping's P-40 From The Egyptian Desert

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No. Any discussion has been closed down. That is just a statement of fact rather than any comment on what may well be something done with good reason.

Important to remember, though, that this thread is solely related to the case of the pilot, Flt Sgt Copping, rather than the P-40. Those discussions about the aircraft were removed from this forum and thus I believe that it would be prudent to keep the discussion here related to that matter or risk the thread being locked or removed. I merely asked the question about any news from RAFM given that the P-40 itself is, clearly, very closely tied to the fate of Dennis Copping.

On that specific subject, however, I am aware that a very recent communication from the MOD in response to a question on this subject met with the response that the MOD were still awaiting information from the British Embassy, Cairo.

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I have recently tried to contact the Defence Attaché in Cairo for information (if any), but have so far no reply. However, I am sure that the members of the British Embassy there have a lot to think about considering the present unrest in Egypt.

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What about Tim Manna talk at HFF in Seattle ?

Hopefully we will learn a lot more (publicly) tomorrow, especially about Tim Manna's theory about the fate of poor old Dennis Copping, and maybe the thread about the P40 itself will soon be reinstated.

Here's hoping.

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For me it will be a fateful weekend, learn more about the fate of Dennis
Copping and know the future fate of Italy (political elections)!
I hope positive in both cases!

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Copping

Obviously not read Sgt Sheppard's account about the transfer flight.

Look forward to hearing his story.

MS

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I thought I would offer a brief update with regards to the information passed on to the family by the MOD et al. JCCC finally contacted them and apologised for the previous misinformation, apparently apportioning blame for this elsewhere. i.e. we're sorry but it's not our fault. Nothing new was offered beyond what has been reported here. JCCC say that they are still waiting for the UK embassy in Cairo to report back to them and can do nothing until that happens. So we are back in the situation where we are waiting for the defense attache in Cairo, Capt Paul Collins RN, to do something. He has publicly stated that he doesn't believe this is a job for 'amateurs' but believes the Egyptians should deal with it, they almost certainly won't as they are quite understandably busy dealing with other issues at the moment. So yet again stalemate, nothing will happen.

One thing that disturbs me greatly is that Tim Manna is apparently about to give an after dinner speech on the subject of the fate of Flt Sgt Dennis Copping and the 'adventure' of the aircraft recovery. I do not object to that per see but the information regarding his fate. i.e. that he was apparently killed in the crash, has not been passed on to the family or an explanation for reaching that conclusion. This has a direct bearing on the search for Dennis's remains and is very relevant to the family. Lets not forget that the recovery expedition was sanctioned by the UK government in the form of the British embassy in Cairo and the MOD in the form of JCCC. For this information to be brought into the public domain for entertainment purposes without the family being properly informed is frankly disgraceful. Despite assurances from numerous MP's that the families welfare is at the forefront of considerations in this matter it simply does not appear to be the case even now. I can assure all who read this that (not surprisingly!) this is still a very emotive issue for Dennis's family and frankly as i have now stated on numerous occasions he and they deserve better. I am frankly disgusted at that the lack of compassion shown to him and his family by all concerned in this sorry saga. I am afraid I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the priority from the outset was to get the P40 for the RAFM and not the recovery of the pilot or the welfare of his family. Even this aim has not been achieved and despite being promised on several occasions now (initially November then January) that a statement would be forthcoming we have heard nothing at all with regards to the aircraft .

The only conclusion that I can draw is that the recovery has been an abject failure and that the people and organisations involved are lying low in the hope that the issue just goes away. In the mean time what is being done about the search for the 24 years old pilot who lost his life in the service of his country? I am quite happy for all involved to cover their embarrassment regarding the aircraft, although it seems that at least one person involved doesn't feel any shame at all! I would like to see someone in this sorry state of affairs take ownership of this issue and do the honorable and descent thing. Is that too much to ask? You tell me?

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Pat
I agree with your thoughts on this.
I have been in contact with the new DA in Cairo, Capt Simon Brand. I did not get very far though. He says that the aircraft, the site and the remains are the responsibility of the Egyptian government. As such, if we want to acquire a sample of the bones or look for remains near the crash site, we will need to request this through the Egyptian authorities. He assures me that they
are working alongside their Egyptian colleagues to reach a satisfactory conclusion to the discovery of the aircraft and the bones.

But if Tim Manna has solved the mystery, we shall soon know.

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Just shows how low this poor old country has sunk, and what a commentary on the state of our public servants (sic). We are simply treated to PR speak courtesy of out PR PM. Motto, "treat them like mushrooms"

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poor Sgt Copping

good evening to all
all is quiet, no one to date has asked the wp of the place where the bones are, after a meeting in Cairo with the authorities farce everything is back in silence.
shame

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Posts: 922

I thought I would offer a brief update with regards to the information passed on to the family by the MOD et al. JCCC finally contacted them and apologised for the previous misinformation, apparently apportioning blame for this elsewhere. i.e. we're sorry but it's not our fault. Nothing new was offered beyond what has been reported here. JCCC say that they are still waiting for the UK embassy in Cairo to report back to them and can do nothing until that happens. So we are back in the situation where we are waiting for the defense attache in Cairo, Capt Paul Collins RN, to do something. He has publicly stated that he doesn't believe this is a job for 'amateurs' but believes the Egyptians should deal with it, they almost certainly won't as they are quite understandably busy dealing with other issues at the moment. So yet again stalemate, nothing will happen.

One thing that disturbs me greatly is that Tim Manna is apparently about to give an after dinner speech on the subject of the fate of Flt Sgt Dennis Copping and the 'adventure' of the aircraft recovery. I do not object to that per see but the information regarding his fate. i.e. that he was apparently killed in the crash, has not been passed on to the family or an explanation for reaching that conclusion. This has a direct bearing on the search for Dennis's remains and is very relevant to the family. Lets not forget that the recovery expedition was sanctioned by the UK government in the form of the British embassy in Cairo and the MOD in the form of JCCC. For this information to be brought into the public domain for entertainment purposes without the family being properly informed is frankly disgraceful. Despite assurances from numerous MP's that the families welfare is at the forefront of considerations in this matter it simply does not appear to be the case even now. I can assure all who read this that (not surprisingly!) this is still a very emotive issue for Dennis's family and frankly as i have now stated on numerous occasions he and they deserve better. I am frankly disgusted at that the lack of compassion shown to him and his family by all concerned in this sorry saga. I am afraid I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the priority from the outset was to get the P40 for the RAFM and not the recovery of the pilot or the welfare of his family. Even this aim has not been achieved and despite being promised on several occasions now (initially November then January) that a statement would be forthcoming we have heard nothing at all with regards to the aircraft .

The only conclusion that I can draw is that the recovery has been an abject failure and that the people and organisations involved are lying low in the hope that the issue just goes away. In the mean time what is being done about the search for the 24 years old pilot who lost his life in the service of his country? I am quite happy for all involved to cover their embarrassment regarding the aircraft, although it seems that at least one person involved doesn't feel any shame at all! I would like to see someone in this sorry state of affairs take ownership of this issue and do the honorable and descent thing. Is that too much to ask? You tell me?

I agree whole heartedly with the above,perhaps our D.A Capt.P.Collins RN does not want to leave his air-conditioned office,but this wont go away we wont let it.I think another letter to join the 3 others I sent to my MP is called for,although I never received the courtesy of a reply to them.But all this is being stored for when he knocks at the door for my vote.

regards
jack...

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So.........

anybody know what was said by Tim Manna?

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slightly off topic but my lynx flight commander from many years ago was a LT simon brand,wonder if its the same one? if so then you may just get the party line.

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Doesn't the UK have a politically active Ex-Serviceman's Association, Like the USA's VFW or Australia's RSL?

There are veterans associations, but they are not 'political'. They are unlikekly to be able or willing to wield any muscle or clout apart from, maybe, making statements to the press about how outraged they are, or how shocking this all is. I am afraid that whatever people like the British Legion or RAFA say it wont make a jot of difference.

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Can we run a petition?

I don't think that would do a lot of good.

I know that there are many individuals who would like to see this resolved, and it is certainly the case that the situation on the ground in Egypt at this time is more than unhelpful in resolving things - either officially or unofficially.

That said, and I mean no disrespect to Tim Manna, but it does rather seem to me that if he was speaking publicly yesterday and perhaps putting forward his theory about the death of Flt Sgt Copping, however credible that theory may well be, then it just seems wrong that this is being presented to the public before it has been relayed to the family. Especially since the website promoting the talk stated that Tim Manna believe that the pilot had died in the crash.

We do not yet know on what that theory is based, but as Tim has been on site, inspected the aircraft and has overseen its recovery to El Alamein, then one presumes he has spoken with some informed authority on the matter.

I am sorry, but if this is so then it is quite unforgivable that these facts, whatever they are, have not first been shared with the next of kin.

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Disgusting...plain and simply disgusting.

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A press conference at the RAF museum would have been appropriate to allow family members a chance to attend and give a context to the recovery .
To carry it out in a country pretty much irrelevant to the story and with little recourse if any to family members seems highly unusual to say the least.
With no outcome to the human remains issue - the whole exercise to the eyes of most will seem like a P-40 treasure hunt.