By: TonyT
- 22nd February 2015 at 20:15Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If donations have been solicited for a certain task and have been diverted elsewhere without contacting and getting agreement from those donators, surely that is fraud and a serious crime that also carries serious penalties?
By: TonyT
- 16th June 2015 at 15:41Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ahhhhhhh
No update as yet gents. It would appear that the bid by the BPAG was changed at the last moment to try and acquire the aircraft for another unrelatred group. The aforementioned Matthew Wilkes seems to of changed the gofundme page details at the last second then took the page off line.
Based on what's been written on the facebook page for the BPAG, It looks like he has taken all the money donated for himself to try and fund getting the aircraft moved to another museum. This was without the knowledge or support of any of the other members of the BPAG, and to that end, I believe the matter has been passed is currently under investigation by the police.
I appriciate that there are 2 sides to every story, but he has yet to respond to any of the questions being asked of him.
By: Runway06
- 16th June 2015 at 18:56Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't know the guy, neither do I have any inside information.
However quite often those under investigation receive legal advise not to say anything or make public statements until after investigations have been completed by the authorities. Just a possible explanation as to the silence?
By: Meddle
- 16th June 2015 at 19:13Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or he's sitting on a tropical beach, drinking c*cktails and laughing at the gullible...!!!
Surely any project that asks for donations requires a level of gullibility from donors? In other words, you are investing money because you wish to see an aircraft restored. There is the risk that you don't donate enough, or that those in charge are shysters. Who audits these organisations? I could set up a Kickstarter campaign tomorrow and claim I was going to recover the Gannet from the long grass at RAF Errol... it doesn't mean its going to happen.
By: Canopener Al
- 17th June 2015 at 09:06Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surely any project that asks for donations requires a level of gullibility from donors? In other words, you are investing money because you wish to see an aircraft restored. There is the risk that you don't donate enough, or that those in charge are shysters. Who audits these organisations? I could set up a Kickstarter campaign tomorrow and claim I was going to recover the Gannet from the long grass at RAF Errol... it doesn't mean its going to happen.
No one audits groups like that unless they are proper museums (like UAS or the BCWM) that play to the rules to hold the charitable status. I asked some questions to the chairman of the group and got snappy answers back like "why ask probing questions?" I never bothered to ask what the relationship with them and Wilkes was. He probably said "I have done this and that" and they replied "Will you do this for us?" . Doubt anything was in writing with a signature, hope there is an e-mail trail to link everything together.
By: Airfixtwin
- 17th June 2015 at 18:47Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No one audits groups like that unless they are proper museums (like UAS or the BCWM) that play to the rules to hold the charitable status. I asked some questions to the chairman of the group and got snappy answers back like "why ask probing questions?" I never bothered to ask what the relationship with them and Wilkes was. He probably said "I have done this and that" and they replied "Will you do this for us?" . Doubt anything was in writing with a signature, hope there is an e-mail trail to link everything together.
As said the UAS are a registered charity. However it's maybe open to debate whether they're a museum yet as you can only visit by prior appointment, and the hangar they're in is owned by the NI government. From my perspective they're basically a private collection and unlike Bentwaters they're not an accredited museum. A pedantic point maybe, but I think worth clarifying.
By: Canopener Al
- 18th June 2015 at 12:52Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As said the UAS are a registered charity. However it's maybe open to debate whether they're a museum yet as you can only visit by prior appointment, and the hangar they're in is owned by the NI government. From my perspective they're basically a private collection and unlike Bentwaters they're not an accredited museum. A pedantic point maybe, but I think worth clarifying.
Thanks Airfixtwin for putting me right, however as a charity, money going in, cannot disappear as easily like the case of Mr Wilkes.
By: Phantom Phil
- 19th June 2015 at 21:07Permalink- Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Latest as per the Chairman:
Sam Thompson
17 June at 14:15
TRANSPARENCY STATEMENT
In light of recent events, it has been decided to produce a statement detailing the measures that have been/in the process of being put in place, in order to prevent such events repeating themselves.
Fundraising -
Any future fundraising will be created and run/overseen by at least one member of the management committee. Currently those involved with fundraising are as follows:
- David Butterfield
- Sam Thompson
- Phillip Moore
- Justyn Keeble
Collectively we will have access to all fundraising pages and accounts. Where possible we will impose a multiple signatory’s culture.
All funds will go either directly to the groups’ bank account or via a fund raising page, controlled as stated above, then into the groups’ bank account.
Bank Account -
The British F4 Phantom Aviation Group currently banks with the Unity Trust Bank, based in Birmingham. The group plans to continue banking with them for the foreseeable future.
Each month we will make available a statement of account status. This will detail the group’s current balance, as well as incomings and outgoings.
With the relative infancy of the group’s bank account, there are currently two signatories on the account. These are:
- David Butterfield
- Sam Thompson
In time, the number of signatories will increase to include all relevant members of the committee. The result of which will be made public.
There is a system in place within the account with the bank for the amount of signatures required from the signatories in order to process transactions of above certain limits.
For transactions over £3000, we will publish details of the transaction with any relevant supporting documents.
Sincerely,
Sam Thompson
General Secretary
The British F4 Phantom Aviation Group
Posts: 2,766
By: spitfireman - 22nd February 2015 at 16:46 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Sorry to hear.:apologetic:
Posts: 9,780
By: David Burke - 22nd February 2015 at 17:16 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Maybe it's time to wait for the group to issue a statement rather than making a statement regards the person concerned.
Posts: 409
By: peppermint_jam - 22nd February 2015 at 17:26 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
They have David, I'll paste it across from Facebook later tonight.
Posts: 8,980
By: TonyT - 22nd February 2015 at 20:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
If donations have been solicited for a certain task and have been diverted elsewhere without contacting and getting agreement from those donators, surely that is fraud and a serious crime that also carries serious penalties?
Posts: 16,832
By: Moggy C - 22nd February 2015 at 22:23 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
History repeating itself. Didn't the same thing happen to an early Vulcan appeal? (Pre-dating, and nothing to do with, VTTS)
Moggy
Posts: 2,766
By: spitfireman - 22nd February 2015 at 23:03 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
.....and the Victor at St Mawgan. Ended up as 'just' the cockpit because of it.
Baz
Posts: 635
By: Runway06 - 26th February 2015 at 18:55 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Any news or updates anyone?
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 26th February 2015 at 21:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Who is Matthew Wilkes? Has anybody ever come across him before?
Posts: 8,980
By: TonyT - 16th June 2015 at 15:35 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Still waiting for the statement.
Posts: 8,980
By: TonyT - 16th June 2015 at 15:41 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Ahhhhhhh
http://www.pprune.org/military-aviation/548560-help-save-phantom-2.html
Posts: 635
By: Runway06 - 16th June 2015 at 18:56 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Don't know the guy, neither do I have any inside information.
However quite often those under investigation receive legal advise not to say anything or make public statements until after investigations have been completed by the authorities. Just a possible explanation as to the silence?
Posts: 1,375
By: Jack Ruskin - 16th June 2015 at 19:00 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Or he's sitting on a tropical beach, drinking c*cktails and laughing at the gullible...!!!
Posts: 1,613
By: Meddle - 16th June 2015 at 19:13 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Surely any project that asks for donations requires a level of gullibility from donors? In other words, you are investing money because you wish to see an aircraft restored. There is the risk that you don't donate enough, or that those in charge are shysters. Who audits these organisations? I could set up a Kickstarter campaign tomorrow and claim I was going to recover the Gannet from the long grass at RAF Errol... it doesn't mean its going to happen.
Posts: 272
By: Canopener Al - 17th June 2015 at 09:06 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
No one audits groups like that unless they are proper museums (like UAS or the BCWM) that play to the rules to hold the charitable status. I asked some questions to the chairman of the group and got snappy answers back like "why ask probing questions?" I never bothered to ask what the relationship with them and Wilkes was. He probably said "I have done this and that" and they replied "Will you do this for us?" . Doubt anything was in writing with a signature, hope there is an e-mail trail to link everything together.
Posts: 8,980
By: TonyT - 17th June 2015 at 12:15 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Eleven grand wouldn't even buy him a decent getaway car, meanwhile what is happening with the Aircraft, is is still ok?
Posts: 15
By: Bombhead365 - 17th June 2015 at 18:04 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Yes the aorcraft is still ok. It's still currently sat in a HAS at RAF Leuchars.
There will be an official update on here later today/tomorrow.
Posts: 147
By: Airfixtwin - 17th June 2015 at 18:47 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
As said the UAS are a registered charity. However it's maybe open to debate whether they're a museum yet as you can only visit by prior appointment, and the hangar they're in is owned by the NI government. From my perspective they're basically a private collection and unlike Bentwaters they're not an accredited museum. A pedantic point maybe, but I think worth clarifying.
Posts: 272
By: Canopener Al - 18th June 2015 at 12:52 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Airfixtwin for putting me right, however as a charity, money going in, cannot disappear as easily like the case of Mr Wilkes.
Posts: 3,650
By: 1batfastard - 18th June 2015 at 17:49 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Hi All,
Maybe he's trying to find Amos so they can return to haunt the Woolpack Inn........:D
Geoff.
Posts: 1,067
By: Phantom Phil - 19th June 2015 at 21:07 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Latest as per the Chairman:
Sam Thompson
17 June at 14:15
TRANSPARENCY STATEMENT
In light of recent events, it has been decided to produce a statement detailing the measures that have been/in the process of being put in place, in order to prevent such events repeating themselves.
Fundraising -
Any future fundraising will be created and run/overseen by at least one member of the management committee. Currently those involved with fundraising are as follows:
- David Butterfield
- Sam Thompson
- Phillip Moore
- Justyn Keeble
Collectively we will have access to all fundraising pages and accounts. Where possible we will impose a multiple signatory’s culture.
All funds will go either directly to the groups’ bank account or via a fund raising page, controlled as stated above, then into the groups’ bank account.
Bank Account -
The British F4 Phantom Aviation Group currently banks with the Unity Trust Bank, based in Birmingham. The group plans to continue banking with them for the foreseeable future.
Each month we will make available a statement of account status. This will detail the group’s current balance, as well as incomings and outgoings.
With the relative infancy of the group’s bank account, there are currently two signatories on the account. These are:
- David Butterfield
- Sam Thompson
In time, the number of signatories will increase to include all relevant members of the committee. The result of which will be made public.
There is a system in place within the account with the bank for the amount of signatures required from the signatories in order to process transactions of above certain limits.
For transactions over £3000, we will publish details of the transaction with any relevant supporting documents.
Sincerely,
Sam Thompson
General Secretary
The British F4 Phantom Aviation Group