CAC Wirraway turns 75! NA-16 derivitive and older cousin of the Harvard / T6

Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

The CAC Wirraway, a direct descendent of the North American NA-16, and older cousin of the NA T6, SNJ and Harvard, turned 75 yesterday with the event celebrated at the Australian National Aviation Museum where the 8th production and oldest surviving CAC Wirraway A20-10 was unveiled after a recent intense spruise up having been returned to her original 1939 pre-war delivery silver colour scheme, and fired back to life after @25 years indoor display. This aircraft is the oldest surviving Wirraway, and perhaps other than an NA--16-2K / NA-20 surviving in South America, is likely to be one the oldest NA-16 descendents surviving in the world, and retains the straight trailing edge wing outer panels, corrugated fin skins, and rear steel tube fuselage frame of that earlier NA Design that persisted into the BC-1, SNJ-1, Harvard I and BT-9 but were lost in the later designs of the Yale and SNJ-2, and the even later T-6 / Harvard Series. The CA-1 model of Wirraway is effectively a licence built NA-16-2K / NA-33, and I believe it is both older physically, and in design, than any of the NA related types now preserved in the USA, but am happy to be corrected? https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5555/14975557789_ef5d63def6.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3887/15161937675_1ca284b683.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3899/14975270220_3d8bd767a7.jpg https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5563/15158950341_3fc9b42bc9.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3893/15138892236_689941fe43.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3853/15138893036_76a02ee0e2.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3859/15161932335_26f7601f95.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3907/15158931981_18147456c0.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3881/14975160469_faf4cee273.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/15138869746_1c1dd13a1d.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3889/14975296267_1d4e3f30c3.jpg https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5582/15161505802_6b70525826.jpg https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3925/15161523472_746532391f.jpg More info at the museums facebook page https://www.facebook.com/moorabbinairmuseum Regards Mark Pilkington
Original post

Member for

15 years 1 month

Posts: 1,543

Lovely to see - thanks Mark.

Member for

16 years 2 months

Posts: 8,505

Very nice

Member for

9 years 1 month

Posts: 400

To put this into context for those not on social media - this was done over the last 10 weeks with around 2,500 hours of volunteer time helping to get us over the line. And yes, it's live too, first time in over 25 years. I will add photos and video to the website in the next couple of days Cheers

Member for

7 years 11 months

Posts: 310

Nice pictures and interesting technical history. What is the yellow aircraft in the back-round of some of the pics? Is it a Ceres? Thanks for posting Bill
Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

Nice pictures and interesting technical history. What is the yellow aircraft in the back-round of some of the pics? Is it a Ceres? Thanks for posting Bill
Yes Bill, that's a CAC CA-28 Ceres Cropduster, a post war development from the Wirraway design. Regards Mark Pilkington

Member for

9 years 1 month

Posts: 400

Just received a short video clip from the engine run https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkYxK2rdd3A Also a couple of extra pics - we had an acapella girl group The Pacific Belles sing Happy Birthday in the 1940's Andrews Sisters style, plus the cake of course (cut by the oldest ex CAC employee there on the day - 90 year old Alan Patching, who had suffered a stroke just two weeks ago but was determined to be there) [ATTACH=CONFIG]231562[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]231563[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]231564[/ATTACH]

Member for

7 years 11 months

Posts: 310

[QUOTE=Mark_pilkington;2166086]Yes Bill, that's a CAC CA-28 Ceres Cropduster, a post war development from the Wirraway design. Thanks Mark Regards Bill
Profile picture for user Dave Homewood

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 5,504

Confused. If the Wirraway has just turned 75, thus meaning the first flight must have been in Sept 1939, how can it be an "older cousin of the NA T6, SNJ and Harvard" when these three aircraft were the NA-26 design that had flown a year before then? And considering the Harvard Mk 1 had entered service with the RAF by January 1939, I guess your statement has to be incorrect. See Flight magazine dated January 26, 1939 for an article on the newly delivered RAF Harvard I.
Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

Confused. If the Wirraway has just turned 75, thus meaning the first flight must have been in Sept 1939, how can it be an "older cousin of the NA T6, SNJ and Harvard" when these three aircraft were the NA-26 design that had flown a year before then? And considering the Harvard Mk 1 had entered service with the RAF by January 1939, I guess your statement has to be incorrect. See Flight magazine dated January 26, 1939 for an article on the newly delivered RAF Harvard I.
Dave, Other than the Harvard I, which as the NA-26 was a contemporary of the Wirraway (NA-33) and the BC-1 (NA-36)and NJ-1 (NA-36), the later Harvard II, III, and IV are all BC-1A/AT6/SNJ derivitives from the @NA55 designs onwards through to NA77 (T6-A, SNJ-3) and NA88 (Harvard 11A), and eventually the NA-121 T6-F. Hence other than being grandchildren of the NA-16, the T6, SNJ and Harvard II-IV are not in the immediate NA-16 family like the Wirraway and its siblings of BC-1, BT-9, Harvard I and NJ-1 were, they are in fact born from the later NA55 design. There are very significant design changes that occur in the BC-1A/BC-2 (NA-55) that very much separate the "before" and "after" designs. Hence my statements should be found to be entirely correct? Other than in its name, the Harvard I is significantly different to the Harvard II, IIA, III and IV and its only the RAF purchasing and naming that they have in common, and the Wirraway design, and early production examples clearly pre-dates them all.
This aircraft is the oldest surviving Wirraway, and perhaps other than an NA--16-2K / NA-20 surviving in South America, is likely to be one the oldest NA-16 descendents surviving in the world, and retains the straight trailing edge wing outer panels, corrugated fin skins, and rear steel tube fuselage frame of that earlier NA Design that persisted into the BC-1, SNJ-1, Harvard I and BT-9 but were lost in the later designs of the Yale and SNJ-2, and the even later T-6 / Harvard Series.
The NA-16, Wirraway, Harvard I, NJ-1 BC-1, BT-9 all share straight trailing edge wing outers, corrugate fins and steel tube rear fuselages - NONE of those features survive into the AT6, T6, SNJ or Harvard II,III, or IV aircraft. At this time there is one NA-16 surviving, along with a handful of Wirraways, ( and a reproduction SK-14 in Sweden). They are the only surviving examples of those unique NA-16 features Unfortunately I am not aware of a Harvard I, NJ-1, BC-1 surviving anywhere in the world?, in any condition? The VAST majority of T6 Texan, SNJ and Harvards (I would in fact suggest ALL) surviving in the world today, are post 1939 production aircraft. Are you aware of ANY other North American NA-16 or T-6 Derivative surviving anywhere, that was built and flew prior to 1940? Regards Mark Pilkington
Profile picture for user Dave Homewood

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 5,504

I guess by your reckoning if a Harvard I is not a Harvard, then a Mustang II is not a Mustang as it looks nothing like a Mustang IV? If the Wirraway is older as you claim then you've missed the boat because the T-6/Harvard/SNJ has already celebrated its 75th some time back both in the USA with a huge formation at Oshkosh and here with an event in NZ.
Profile picture for user Avro Avian

Member for

9 years 9 months

Posts: 585

Don't want to get into this "discussion", but I think it is rather sad that none of the Harvard Mk I variants has not survived, given its importance in the ETS. Wirraway A20-10 is looking much better now after a tidy up and I am quite pleased that the earlier type of cowl has been fitted. Good work fellas!:)
Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

I guess by your reckoning if a Harvard I is not a Harvard, then a Mustang II is not a Mustang as it looks nothing like a Mustang IV? If the Wirraway is older as you claim then you've missed the boat because the T-6/Harvard/SNJ has already celebrated its 75th some time back both in the USA with a huge formation at Oshkosh and here with an event in NZ.
Dave I suspect you are likely to find the T6/Harvard/SNJ 75th Anniversary's of 2010 were linked to the first flight of the NA-16 itself in 1935, and not the first flight of any of those later specific sub-types, and clearly the Wirraway can claim that same NA-16 1935 birthday as much as a Harvard I, II, III or any other descendent in the NA family can? However as I mentioned earlier, there are no surviving examples of a Harvard I, or BC-1, or BT-9 or NJ-1 to celebrate their own sub-model birthday's and other than the Hondura's NA-16-2, NA-20, there are only the surviving Wirraways and a reproduction SK-14. The Wirraway as a sub-type celebrates its own 75th birthday in 2014, dating from its first flights in 1939. Of the Harvard II, IIa, III's and IV's that celebrated the 75th anniversary in 2010 in NZ, or flying there today,how many of those first flew in 1935, 1939, 1940, or even 1941? How many of those sub-types first flew 75 years ago? I think you will find the first flights of all of those sub-models are after 1939, ie they are yet to reach 75. Geoff Goodalls World Wide Warbird Directory lists the NA-64 Yales and a handful of AT-6 and Harvard II's surviving from 1940 construction, the rest are all 1941 onwards. Strictly the UK, NZ, Canada and Australia were at war from September 1939 but the US wasn't until December 1941, but clearly then only the RAAF Wirraway and RAF Harvard I's were truly a "pre-war design". As to a name, you might note that the USAF is currently training its pilots in the Beech T6 Texan II, but I'm sure we both agree that there is little other than the name in common with a NA T6 Texan, equally they are flying the JSF Lockheed (Martin) Lightning II, but that has little other than the name in common with the Lockheed P38 Lightning. The Harvard II is of course much closer to the Harvard I than those examples, but there are very significant design and development differences. Its much the same as comparing a Spitfire mark I with a Spitfire mark 22, there is little other than the name that is interchangeable between the two designs, and the same is true between the structure of the Harvard I and the Harvard II and later models. The RAF ordered NA-16's as Harvard I's , then it later ordered AT-6's as Harvard II's, Canadian built AT-6A's as Harvard IIB's, AT-6C's as Harvard IIA's, AT-6D's as Harvard III's and the Harvard IV is on its own but is considered to rival the T6-G as the ultimate version. But at no time is the "Harvard" itself a design being evolved on its own by the RAF, they are simply giving variants of the name to later models coming out of the NA production, largely driven by USAAF and USN requirements. The same gap in evolution exists between the USN's NJ-1 to the SNJ-2, and then SNJ-3,4,5, which again straddle the NA-16 to BC-1A NA-55 design change. Your example of the RAF Mustang I, Mustang II and Mustang IV compares an Allison powered NA-73 / NA-83 to the Merlin powered P-51D, vastly different aircraft under the same name and again perhaps very little interchangeable parts between them? Yes they are all Mustangs, but clearly not the same.
The Texan originated from the North American NA-16 prototype (first flown on April 1, 1935) which, modified as the NA-26, was submitted as an entry for a USAAC "Basic Combat" aircraft competition in March, 1937. The first model went into production and 180 were supplied to the USAAC as the BC-1 and 400 to the RAF as the Harvard I. The US Navy received 16 modified aircraft, designated the SNJ-1, and a further 61 as the SNJ-2 with a different engine. The BC-1 was the production version of the NA-26 prototype, with retractable tailwheel landing gear and the provision for armament, a two-way radio, and the 550 hp (410 kW) R-1340-47 engine as standard equipment. Production versions included the BC-1 (Model NA-36) with only minor modifications (177 built), of which 30 were modified as BC-1I instrument trainers; the BC-1A (NA-55) with airframe revisions (92 built); and a single BC-1B with a modified wing center-section. Three BC-2 aircraft were built before the shift to the "advanced trainer" designation, AT-6, which was equivalent to the BC-1A. The differences between the AT-6 and the BC-1 were new outer wing panels with a swept forward trailing edge, squared-off wingtips and a triangular rudder, producing the canonical Texan silhouette. After a change to the rear of the canopy, the AT-6 was designated the Harvard II for RAF/RCAF orders and 1,173 were supplied by purchase or Lend Lease, mostly operating in Canada as part of the British Commonwealth Air Training Plan. Next came the AT-6A which was based on the NA-77 design and was powered by the Pratt & Whitney R-1340-49 Wasp radial engine. The USAAF received 1,549 and the US Navy 270 (as the SNJ-3). The AT-6B was built for gunnery training and could mount a .30 in machine gun on the forward fuselage. It used the R-1340-AN-1 engine, which was to become the standard for the remaining T-6 production. Canada's Noorduyn Aviation built an R-1340-AN-1-powered version of the AT-6A, which was supplied to the USAAF as the AT-16 (1,500 aircraft) and the RAF/RCAF as the Harvard IIB (2,485 aircraft), some of which also served with the Fleet Air Arm and Royal Canadian Navy. In late 1937 Mitsubushi purchased two NA-16s as technology demonstrators and possibly a licence to build more. However, the aircraft developed by Watanabe/Kyushu as the K10W1 (Allied code name Oak) bore no more than a superficial resemblance to the North American design. It featured a full monocoque fuselage as opposed to the steel tube fuselage of the T-6 and NA-16 family of aircraft, as well as being of smaller dimensions overall and had no design details in common with the T-6. It was used in very small numbers by the Imperial Japanese Navy from 1942 onwards. After the war the Japanese Air Self Defense Force operated Texans. The NA-88 design resulted in 2,970 AT-6C Texans and 2,400 as the SNJ-4. The RAF received 726 of the AT-6C as the Harvard IIA. Modifications to the electrical system produced the AT-6D (3,713 produced) and SNJ-5 (1,357 produced). The AT-6D, redesignated the Harvard III, was supplied to the RAF (351 aircraft) and Fleet Air Arm (564 aircraft). The AT-6G (SNJ-7) involved major advancements including a full-time hydraulic system and a steerable tailwheel and persisted into the 1950s as the USAF advanced trainer. Subsequently the NA-121 design with a completely clear rearmost section on the canopy, gave rise to 25 AT-6F Texans for the USAAF and 931, as the SNJ-6 for the US Navy. The ultimate version, the Harvard 4, was produced by Canada Car and Foundry during the 1950s, and supplied to the RCAF, USAF and Bundeswehr. A total of 15,495 T-6s of all variants were built.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan The CAC Wirraway A20-10 celebrated its 75th anniversary over the weekend, it is a rare surviving example of the early NA-16 all steel tube fuselage pre-war designs that later evolved into the very successfully T6/ SNJ / Harvard wartime trainers. The CAC Wirraway is a licence built NA-16-2K, ie the NA-33, and therefore shares in common the 1935 first flight of the NA-16 with all other derivatives, but commences its own variant history from 1939. Unfortunately other than 1 NA-16 variant surviving in Hondura's there are no other examples of pre-war NA-16 derivatives surviving anywhere in the world, (not even in New Zealand.) Smiles Mark Pilkington
Profile picture for user Dave Homewood

Member for

15 years 7 months

Posts: 5,504

I'm not talking about 2010 for the anniversary Mark, I'm talking 2013. Here's a thread on the NZ event http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/20034/zealand-warbirds-assoc-open-ardmore And here Oshkosh in 2013 (note the big 75 formation) http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/2013/Oshkosh/texan.html As for the rest you're digging a big hole here. Your initial post's first sentence claimed the Wirraway was older than the Harvard. Not any specific Wirraway versus any specific Harvard. So the statement is wrong as Harvards first flew in 1938 and were in RAF service by January 1939. Sorry Mark, it's not important to the main point of your thread, but i really felt I had to call you out on your claim which is simply not correct.
Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

I'm not talking about 2010 for the anniversary Mark, I'm talking 2013. Here's a thread on the NZ event http://rnzaf.proboards.com/thread/20034/zealand-warbirds-assoc-open-ardmore And here Oshkosh in 2013 (note the big 75 formation) http://www.vg-photo.com/airshow/2013/Oshkosh/texan.html As for the rest you're digging a big hole here. Your initial post's first sentence claimed the Wirraway was older than the Harvard. Not any specific Wirraway versus any specific Harvard. So the statement is wrong as Harvards first flew in 1938 and were in RAF service by January 1939. Sorry Mark, it's not important to the main point of your thread, but i really felt I had to call you out on your claim which is simply not correct.
Dave, I don't think I'm digging anything, let alone a hole. I think you are reading one sentence in isolation of the complete paragraph and the context of that paragraph in the complete post. I also have to call you on your earlier claim that the Harvard is derived from the NA-26, the Harvard I is the NA-49, the NA-26 is the BC-1, for the USAAC.
The CAC Wirraway, a direct descendent of the North American NA-16, and older cousin of the NA T6, SNJ and Harvard, turned 75 yesterday with the event celebrated at the Australian National Aviation Museum where the 8th production and oldest surviving CAC Wirraway A20-10 was unveiled after a recent intense spruise up having been returned to her original 1939 pre-war delivery silver colour scheme, and fired back to life after @25 years indoor display.
Note the T6/SNJ/Harvard series are all a common sub-series with largely UK versus US furnishings and names dividing them, and are all derived from the NA-55, they are not NA-16 models, the NA-55 is clearly a later design to the NA-33 that the Wirraway is based on. the First flight of the Harvard II, and later Harvards from the NA-55 onwards is in 1940. Yes there is a Harvard I that sits outside that grouping, as does the NJ-1 and the BC-1, which ARE all NA-16 derivatives and ARE all mentioned in the very next para?
This aircraft is the oldest surviving Wirraway, and perhaps other than an NA--16-2K / NA-20 surviving in South America, is likely to be one the oldest NA-16 descendents surviving in the world, and retains the straight trailing edge wing outer panels, corrugated fin skins, and rear steel tube fuselage frame of that earlier NA Design that persisted into the BC-1, SNJ-1, Harvard I and BT-9 but were lost in the later designs of the Yale and SNJ-2, and the even later T-6 / Harvard Series.
I think you will find that statement above to be factual? if not I would be pleased to be corrected?
The CA-1 model of Wirraway is effectively a licence built NA-16-2K / NA-33, and I believe it is both older physically, and in design, than any of the NA related types now preserved in the USA, but am happy to be corrected?
I think you will also find that statement factual and still un-challenged at this point?, unless you know of a candidate? in the USA or in NZ? Noting that its incorrect to reference the NA-26 (BC-1) as the design reference for the Harvard II-IV series when the NA-55 is, and equally the NA-49 is actually the starting point of the Harvard name. The NA-49 Harvard (I), was selected and ordered from North American by the British Purchasing Commission in June 1938 and the first example flew in September 1938. The NA-16, as the "Wirraway" was selected for local manufacture in 1936 by Wackett on behalf of the RAAF and CAC, and a licence to build locally in Australia was secured from North American by the Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation in 1937, the NA-32 (fixed undercarriage NA-16) and NA-33 (Retractable undercarriage NA-16) were shipped out in August / September 1937 and flew locally not long after, a full year prior to the RAF selection and ordering of the NA-49 Harvard I. RAF AVM Ellington visited Australia in 1938 to review the RAAF and criticised the Wirraway and the whole decision to build an American aircraft in Australia for the RAAF, by June 1938 the RAF were ordering the same aircraft themselves as the Harvard I. Note then that by the NA-33 Contract number, and the 1937 decision and contract to licence build them, that clearly then the NA-33 "Wirraway" design pre-dates the 1938 selection and ordering of the NA-49 Harvard I by the RAF, although they are clearly NA-16 Siblings. Both the Wirraway as the NA-33 and the Harvard I as the NA-49, are later NA-16 developments from the BC-1 NA-26, both can claim that "birthday" and both can just as easily claim the NA-16 birthday in 1935 too, but their own birthdays arise from their specific NA Contracts, or their own first flights. The first NA-49 Harvard I flies in September 1938, a year before the first CA-1 Wirraway flies in Australia in 1939, but clearly the Wirraway is a slightly earlier NA design, but these are very minor differences (The Wirraway has the round rudder of the BC-1, the Harvard (I) has the flat bottomed rudder of the NJ-1, and both are clearly derived from the 1935 NA-16 when compared with the later NA-55 design changes carried into the Harvard II, III & IV etc. My first post when read in context and in its entirety, referenced the Harvard I and included it within the pre-war NA-16 direct family and then referred to the later T6/SNJ/Harvard wartime developments, as younger cousins to the Wirraway, - I stand by that statement. I'm not referring to a specific Wirraway example compared to a specific Harvard example, nor I am I tying a 1950 Harvard IV back to a 1935 NA-16 or a 1938 Harvard I and claiming they are effectively the same aircraft. The pre-war NA-16 series is as structurally and dimensionally different from a Harvard II, III and IV as a Douglas DC-2 is Different from a DC-3 and C-47, you don't seem to understand that, or wish to admit it, but its true. The BC-1, the NJ-1, the Harvard I and the Wirraway are all NA-16 based designs with shared features of straight trailing edge wing outers with a certain aerofoil, a shorter rear fuselage structure which is steel tube based and fabric covered, a different fin, and different rudder and different tailplanes and elevators, and a different centre-section. ie they are all different from the "AT-6", "T6-A to G" and "SNJ-2 to 7" and "Harvard II to IV" that all largely share common features that emerge in the NA-55. So an NA-26 BC-1, a NA-33/CA-1 Wirraway, and a NA-49 Harvard I are ALL just as different to a NA-55 "Harvard II to IV" If you don't see that, or want to admit that, and wish to persist with Allison Mustang I to Merlin Mustang IV comparisons, I guess then ridiculously the pre-war DH88 Comet is "identical" to the post war DH106 Comet "other than" using stressed aluminium skin, having a few extra seats, 2 extra engines and @26M of extra length? Yes they are both made by DH, and both called Comets, are only 18 model numbers away from each other, but CLEARLY other than the name, that's where the similarity ends? Yes the RAF aircraft named "Harvard" first flies in 1938 as the NA-49, but that is a very different aeroplane to the later NA-55 based Harvard designs, and the further contracts of NA66, NA77 and NA88 etc and all those that flew to commemorate its flight in 2013? If you want to peg the later Harvard models to that NA-49 anniversary that's fine, but none of those later examples are YET 75 years old - not one. Not one of the existing Harvard II, IIA, IIB, III or IV survivors were built prior to 1940, and not one of the first flights of those sub-models - occurred in 1939 or prior? Its no different pegging them all back to 2010 and the 1935 first flight of the NA-16. None of that changes the design relationships and differences between the various sub-models, and clearly the Wirraway is a licence built NA-16 and the Harvard II, IIA, IIB, III and IV are not, they are all much later developments, as evidenced by any written history of the North American T6 series you would care to cite? The Wirraway celebrated its 75 Anniversary in September 2014, its not a T6, SNJ or Harvard, its an NA-16 Derivitive, a licence built NA-16-2K to be specific. There are only a very small handful of NA-16 Derivatives surviving in the world today exhibiting the unique features of the NA-16 series including the straight trailing edge wing outers, the short steel tube rear fuselage, the corrugated fin and round rudder, unfortunately none of the Harvard I's that shared those characteristics survive today, and all other later model Harvards are not of the same pre-war design period and do not share any of those unique NA-16 features. Again this is limited to the Honduras NA-16, the reproduction SK-14 in Sweden and the remaining Wirraway survivors. There are no known survivors of the BC-1, NJ-1, Harvard I or BT-9 NA-16 variants. Later model Harvards belong to a later sub-series that starts with the BC-1A/BC-2 and AT6 at NA-55, those have totally different wing centre sections, wing outer panels, longer rear monocoque fuselages, different fins, rudders, tailplanes and elevators, largely a re-design in many areas, not unlike the various design changes that grew the DC-2 into the DC-3 and then into the C-47 over much the same period. If you do a bit of digging around I suspect you might come up with the same answers? Beyond that, like the DC2/DC3/C47, the NA-16/T6/SNJ/Harvard series is an iconic type. Heres the wiki page for the NA-16 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_NA-16 Heres the wiki page for the T6 > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan Heres the wiki page of the variants >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_T-6_Texan_variants This has an excellent table showing where the NA-16 Variants stop. The "Family" starts with the original open cockpit, fixed undercarriage NA-16 It finishes with the cancelled NA-188 contract for the SNJ-8. Some family members are siblings of the original NA-16 Most are grandchildren of it. The NA-33 / CA-1 Wirraway is an older cousin to the T6, the SNJ and the Harvard II, III & IV etc, and a sibling to the NA-49 Harvard I and NA-16. The NA-49 Harvard I is similarly an older cousin to its later namesakes, its not in the direct evolution path of those later Harvard series, the NA-55 BC-1A/BC-2 is. The design of the NA33 / CA-1 Wirraway clearly pre-dates the design of the NA-49 Harvard, even though the first locally built Wirraway flies 12 months after the Harvard I, but thats a minor detail. Smiles Mark Pilkington

Member for

9 years 1 month

Posts: 400

Whatever the arguments you may wish to take part in, we had a great day, the celebration was built around the fact that the actual day was the 75th anniversary of this particular aircraft's first flight as recorded in its logbook. Ex CAC employees some of whom started work there in 1940 made it for the day, all who attended had a great time.I'm not personally interested in what aircraft was older or not, I'm more concerned with this aircraft and it's anniversary which is something I took personal pride in organising. Best of all, this was restored by a group of seriously dedicated volunteers, many of whom are from the younger generations, and done with absolutely no funding from organisations or the government, which shows that a properly run volunteer Museum can make decent progress :) And as an aside, I have shared the album showing many photos of the restoration process onto our Facebook page. I will add it to the website as soon as I have a few spare minutes as it's turning into a big album ! The Volunteer Brigade (most of them, some were off working) [ATTACH=CONFIG]231579[/ATTACH]
Profile picture for user JollyGreenSlugg

Member for

13 years 3 months

Posts: 199

G'day folks, I may be reading too much or too little about it, but it seems simple to me. The Wirraway was built to a earlier design in the family, and almost all other surviving NAA advanced trainers of the family were built to later designs. So, even though A20-10 was completed in September 1939, the particular design pre-dates that of the Harvard I, and other aircraft which were delivered around that time. Mark, is that what you meant? But all of that aside, Saturday was a magnificent day. Seeing the ex-CAC employees reacquainting themselves with the Wirraway was something to behold. Watching one man slowly walk around 10, lost in thought and memories, was quite humbling. For me, the story of the machines comes second to the story of the men. A lot of people have worked very hard on this machine, with long days and late nights. I've been tied up with it all, but haven't been very hands-on, living 500km away. I did come down to help one weekend, and it was great fun! A20-10 has received a level of attention over the last year or so, which was ramped up to an intense ten weeks to have her ready for her 75th. I was there for the last run in 1987, and am delighted to have been there again on Saturday. So, congratulations are due to those who got their hands dirty, and those who quietly worked in the background. To see the old girl come to life again was pure magic. Cheers, Matt
Profile picture for user mark_pilkington

Member for

15 years 4 months

Posts: 1,732

G'day folks, The Wirraway was built to a earlier design in the family, and almost all other surviving NAA advanced trainers of the family were built to later designs. So, even though A20-10 was completed in September 1939, the particular design pre-dates that of the Harvard I, and other aircraft which were delivered around that time. Mark, is that what you meant?
got it in one Matt, and A20-10 is a rare survivor worldwide of those early NA-16 variants, including the BC-1, NJ-1, BT-9 and Harvard I, of which unfortunately none survive today - anywhere in the world.
So, congratulations are due to those who got their hands dirty, and those who quietly worked in the background. To see the old girl come to life again was pure magic. Cheers, Matt
Got it in Two, Without their efforts the 75th Anniversary of the CAC Wirraway may have passed without notice. The Wirraway as a design is not on the gant chart of evolution or parentage of those later NAA designs, its an older cousin. Separately, in terms of survivors: This is the oldest surviving member of the NA-16 to T6/SNJ/Harvard family of NAA Trainers. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/NA-16_FAH-21_EDUARDO_SOSA_2005.jpg This is believed to be the only surviving NA-16, which is in Hondura's, apparently an NA-16-2A, and NA-20 Contract aircraft and therefore apparently an earlier design than the NA-32 and NA-33 (an NA-16-2K), and clearly produced in the NA Factory and exported prior to CA-1 A20-10 being built. Hence its an older aircraft, and it retains the original NA straight edge windscreen, and fixed rear canopy, but has the NA-16 corrugated fin, and round rudder, short fabric covered steel tube rear fuselage, and in this case the short engine mount of the Wright engine, and two blade propeller. Unfortunately it is still stored outside, and has apparently had its fabric side panels "metalised"? This is the Second oldest surviving member of the NA-16 to T6/SNJ/Harvard family of NAA Trainers. https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3889/14975296267_1d4e3f30c3.jpg It is a licence built NA-33 or NA-16-2K, and the sole surviving CA-1 Wirraway A20-10. it differs in not having the original NA straight edge windscreen, and fixed rear canopy, but has the NA-16 corrugated fin, and round rudder, short fabric covered steel tube rear fuselage, and in this case the long engine mount of the P&W engine, and three blade propeller, all features of the BC-1. It first flew in September 1939, and pre-dates the first flight of any other NAA T6 SNJ or Harvard surviving anywhere in the world today. Regards Mark Pilkington
Profile picture for user A-4Scooter

Member for

7 years 2 months

Posts: 48

The point that should be understood here is an important part of Australia's aerospace manufacturing history has been been refurbished for the people who visit our museum to view and admire. The effort to achieve this has been extremely demanding on our volunteers who have contributed many hours of their free time, to travel to work, preserve and present the aircraft like we did on Saturday. Many long days, and some sleepless nights to showcase how CA-1 Wirraway A20-10 looked 75 years ago to the date of her first flight is the point some people seem to be missing here. To be honest I'm disappointed that a thread about the good happening in the Aviation preservation fraternity has turned into a mud slinging match. Perhaps some time alone to consider the above point is needed. I am proud to work and manage a great bunch of volunteers who are passionate about our museum and have to pinch myself sometimes at the result we achieved in such a short timeframe. Attached is one of my photos of our beautiful girl. Cheers David Soderstrom Display Manager Australian National Aviation Museum. Moorabbin Airport Australia
Attachment Size
image.jpg 307.21 KB

Member for

7 years 4 months

Posts: 151

I'm proud of the rubbing down of the underside of the horizontal tail surfaces I did (hopefully it was good enough, LOL) several weeks ago when she was quite undressed in the shed (like the third photo in Mark's original post). Sadly, that was the only chance I had to work on her and it was a mere few hours, and had little bearing on the stunning finished aircraft we see before us, but every little bit counts and I thank the museum for allowing me loose with the sandpaper. It is truly amazing what can be done by a group that is well led and enthusiastic. We were in Melbourne on the weekend but otherwise engaged. Would have loved to have been there. What an occasion! What's next? :-)
Profile picture for user A-4Scooter

Member for

7 years 2 months

Posts: 48

Andy you know your always welcome within the ANAM family and as you know every bit helped get it to where she was on Saturday. Look forward to seeing you soon mate. What's next? finish the DC-3!