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By: - 11th January 2017 at 11:22 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
2119M is a serial applied to a grounded airframe transferred for technical training. M stands for maintenance.
By: - 11th January 2017 at 12:25 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Well P9570 was supposed to be a Spitfire I but cancelled...so no luck there. But I highly suspect a swapped number in there somewhere. Unless of course one pilot "usually" flew P9507 but didn't "on the day" and a clerk has made an assumption....I suspect examining other movement cards for the squadron aircraft may reveal the error? Either double recording or another simply "vanishing" from further recording after the dates.
By: - 11th January 2017 at 13:32 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Milne flew P9449 regularly in June 1940 (ORB). I don't have access to record cards but Morgan & Shacklady lists P9449 as FTR ops over France on 5-7-40 so I think this must have been his aircraft on the day he was lost, rather than P9507.
The July ORB records that the two surviving aircraft from Milne's patrol both landed at Hawkinge, rather than Kenley. The three aircraft are listed as R6700, P9507 and P9450. Both the aircraft which landed at Hawkinge had been damaged so there could have been a mix-up in recording the serials on that day by the admin wallah at Kenley. P9507 could have been one of the damaged aircraft, so repairs might explain the delay in its return to the squadron. I have no explanation for the entries in its record card.
By: - 11th January 2017 at 14:01 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Milne flew P9449 regularly in June 1940 (ORB). I don't have access to record cards but Morgan & Shacklady lists P9449 as FTR ops over France on 5-7-40 so I think this must have been his aircraft on the day he was lost, rather than P9507.The three aircraft are listed as R6700, P9507 and P9450. P9507 could have been one of the damaged aircraft...
Hmm, "First of the Few" by Brian Cull gives P9450 flown by Sub-Lt(A) F Dawson-Paul RNVR, claiming a probable and also suffering Cat.2 damage. It gives Milne's a/c as P9449.
The Air Britain serials series says that P9449 was shot down at Hailsham and became the maintenance airframe (same number)- it gives 22 October but is unclear whether that's the date to maint. airframe or the date of shoot down- presumably the former.
The records for P9450 and R6700 seem to fit that they survived for some time, so I would speculate that Milne was not actually flying one of those two. So far it seems like a mixup between P9507 and P9449. I'll check some other sources when I get the chance... starting with: This link gives a hint of prior discussion and also shows possible prior confusion with P9449:
http://www.rafcommands.com/forum/showthread.php?6580-P-O-T-C-Hey-64-Sqn-RAF-lost-1-June-1940
bob
p.s. The Fighter Command Losses series also has the error (apparently) with P9507 being shot down on both days.
By: - 11th January 2017 at 18:43 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks Graham, that has nailed that part of my query!
By: - 12th January 2017 at 11:30 Permalink - Edited 1st January 1970 at 01:00
Thanks to all for the replies so far, this is my first post on this Forum and I am amazed by the timely, in depth responses!
Posts: 4
By: Peter Cook - 11th January 2017 at 11:13
Can anyone help me to clarify the history of Spitfire P9507? It was issued to 64 squadron at Kenley on 3rd July 1940, and is recorded in the ORB (Air/27/589/20) and aircraft movement card as shot down on 5th July during an encounter with e/a near Rouen in France during which the pilot, P/O D.K. Milne, was killed. However, P9507 is listed in the ORB again on 10th July, flown by F/O D.M. Taylor, with 13 flights being recorded before the aircraft is shot down again on the 17th July (supposedly by Helmut Wicks), with P9507 crash landing near Hailsham. As before, this is recorded in the ORB and the movement card, which records the final entry as 'to 2119M' on 22nd October where it was presumably struck off charge. Can anyone explain how P9507 apparently crashed in France on 5th July, but was back flying again on July 10th? Also, what does 2119M stand for?