Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean

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Dears, Last week I bought a fotograph of a crashed Spitfire somewhere on a coast in the Mediteranean. The nose and wings in the water and the rest on the shore. The Spitfire seems to have no damage and it looks that the pilot just stepped out. On the back in German: Abgeschossener Spitfire über dem Mittelmeer. (Spitfire shot down over the Mediteranean Sea) The marking are: "X" with the serialnumber BR 112 Is there someone who can tell me where and when this plane was shot down, what squadron and perhaps the name of the pilot? A scan of this nice photograph is available, please let me know. Regards and thanks, Joop Vroom Enschede Netherlands
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Hi Johan Your photo is probably one of a well known series of photos that were taken of BR112 ,probably by an Italian. There are two photos of it in the book Osprey Aircraft of The Aces No 16 "Spitfire MkV Aces 1941-45" by Dr Alfred Price.I have also seen photos elsewhere. The caption to the photos in the above book reads as follows:- "Italian Air Force officers examine BR112/X of No 185 Sqn after it crash landed on the beach at Scoglitti,Sicily,on 9 September 1942. Its pilot, Sgt Claude Weaver (an American who had joined the RCAF in early 1941), was taken prisoner. This aircraft was one of those delivered as part of Operation Calender in April 1942, its blue paint scheme, hastily applied over the fighter's original desert camouflage once on Malta, clearly showing signs of peeling away. Following the Italian armistice Weaver escaped from captivity and resumed combat flying at the end of 1943, only to be killed in action shortly afterwards.At the time of his death his victory score was 12 and 1 shared destroyed and 3 probably destroyed." Just a little further info for you Johan,....Operation Calender was the first of several deliveries of Spitfires to Malta. On 13th April 1942 47 Spitfires were transported from Glasgow on the US carrier USS Wasp. The launch of the Spifires took place on the 20th April,and all but one reached Malta safely. Once there they were immediately bombed by the Luftwaffe and by the following evening only 17 (!!!) of the 46 that got to Malta were flyable. Many of the Malta Spitfires were painted in the blue camouflage to hide them while over the sea,which they obviously did much more than flying over land. Apparently the blue paint was obtained locally giving rise to many unofficial colour schemes. The blue paint on some Spitfires was very dark and must have been very similar to RAF roundel blue (but seemingly not actually roundel blue)as several Spitfires are shown in photos as having overpainted wing roundels in a lighter than normal shade of blue to contrast with the new blue paint job. The roundels on the fuselage stayed the same normal blue because they had the yellow surround for contrast. A very good example of this is BR586/T-M shown on page 55 and 56 of the above book. If anyone knows ,or thinks they know,what colour blue/s were used on Malta ,could they please speak up...I have wondered about it for many years. Hope this has helped Johan Cheers,FURY.

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean I don't know, you go to all that trouble of reading up on something for someone ,then typing it all out, and the miserable S*D can't even be bothered to say thank you. I might not bother answering next time someone asks something that i know the answer to.

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Fury, Because your mailbox is inactive I couldnot thank you in personnally for the really good information you gave me. Is is very helpfull to me. Johanherman
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Humble Pie Time??? :) :) :)

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean >Humble Pie Time??? >:) :) :) NO....NOT AT ALL. How do I know or not that he may only have answered me NOW because of what I said? :p Anyway....giving you the benefit of the doubt Johan........ I hope you found the information useful.....

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean WHOOOPS! Should have been a capital P for this...... :P

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean I know what Fury means, I'm still waiting for some pictures, of OBOE equipment that went into the rear cockpit area of the Mosquito, that were offered. But haven't meterialised, yet. It is most frustrating & does get you a bit peed off!!! Neilly
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Personally I don't see the point in having a go at people for not saying thanks.It seems counter productive.I think Fury should perhaps count himself lucky that he got a reply from Johan at all after the way he so impatiently had a go at him! Personally I'd be well ticked off if I came along a few days after putting up a posting and found numerous complaints being thrown at me. If you get some word of thanks be grateful,but don't be spiteful if you don't,the other person might just be busy rather than offensive.
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean No humble pie then - slice of pizza perhaps??? :) PS When you click on the link to send you an email this below is displayed "FURY's Email is inactive. Sorry, you can't send email message to FURY... User FURY has disabled his/her email"

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean OOOOHHHHH GET YOU BITCH ! What is this? Have a go at Fury time, because I speak my mind EH ? Ant...PLEASE DON'T EVER CALL ME SPITEFUL AGAIN. You don't know me at all ,so how can you say that? I already know exactly what it says about e-mailing me Bob. I myself don't always say thanks to everyone, but it depends on how much time or effort the answerer has spent finding the answer for me, or typing it out, but if someone had obviously spent as much time giving an answer as I had done, THEN I WOULD HAVE SAID THANK YOU, would you Bob or Ant?. The same kind of thing happens with the Flypast help column, which Ken Ellis actually said something about once, people spend ages finding lots of info for others but never say thank you, it's only common courtesy after all, or is that not the accepted way in these enlightened days ? The BIG trouble with this forum and others , is that too many people seem to only like talking about "minor" stuff, which doesn't really require thanks or even warrant a reply most of the time, and I suppose most people get used to not having to reply or say thanks to others, but if someone like me or Mr Burke asks a BIG question or puts forward a serious proposal on something, then hardly anyone can be bothered to reply, which I think is quite rude actually when someone has obviously thought a hell of a lot about a particular subject. Take for instance Mr Burkes thinking on the state of the museum situation in this country, so far I am the only one to have replied to him,actually I started it off, even though he asked for comments in Flypast itself, and because I gave him a full answer as I saw it , he was good enough to say thanks to me. If I had only given a 1 or 2 sentence answer as appears to be the norm for most stuff, then I would not have expected a reply or thanks. Too many small minded people perhaps, with too little actual knowledge on any subject, and too little to say.....except when someone needs slapping down, that's when EVERYONE finds that they have got an opinion . As for Johan, I still stand by what I said before, HOW DO I KNOW OR NOT WHETHER HE ONLY REPLIED TO ME NOW BECAUSE OF WHAT I SAID? When I ask a question I check back everyday to see if I got a reply, why didn't he ? It's not much of an excuse to say he couldn't e-mail me personally, that's one reason why I have disabled my e-mail, so other people can read any reply that someone wants to give me, I thought that's what these forums were supposed to be about, freedom and sharing of information and replying on the forum itself and not just to the person him/herself . Anyway, giving you the benefit of the doubt Johan , if you are reading this, I hope you found the information useful ? Ant & Bob, if you ever need any help with something and I know the answer, I will still tell you even though you seem to not like me...that's the kind of guy I am. :-) :P >No humble pie then - slice >of pizza perhaps??? >:) > > >PS >When you click on the link >to send you an email >this below is displayed > >"FURY's Email is inactive. > > >Sorry, you can't send email message >to FURY... >User FURY has disabled his/her email" >
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Apologies for any offence Fury,I just felt it was daft to expect a reply so soon.As I remember it,your post had only been up a few days when you started having a go at johan.A number of my posts have gone either without reply,or without thanks for providing info,but then again I don't EXPECT it.Ofcourse I'm always glad if someone shows courtesy,but if they dont I do not see the point in griping about it.Perhaps they just hadn't got round to replying. Lets let it rest shall we...?
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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Fury, You stated "..if you ever need any help with something and I know the answer, I will still tell you even though you seem to not like me..." I have no reason to dislike you - you have answered and supported some of my postings and what was meant as a bit of humour ( I did post it between a pair of :)'s)has obviously been taken in the wrong way. Sorry if you felt ganged up against, that was not my intention. I told you about your email being disabled, as I do not click on my email link so would not know if it was active. I thought you may not be aware. I stand corrected. The one problem about this medium is a remark, meant in a friendly humourous way, can be misread. The offer for a slice of pizza still stands!!!! ;-)

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean Put your handbags away boys and grow up!:0

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean No worries lads. There's bigger things to worry about today. Everything else pales into insignificance considering what else has happened. Cheers Fury.

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RE: Crashed Spitfire, Mediteranean I think this is not the place for this kind of discussions. This has nothing to do with the Flypast Forum. I made mu excuse to Fury, and I meant it, but I think he must open a chat box for this kind of nonsense. For me: discussion CLOSED.